autox
[Top] [All Lists]

RE: ackerman

To: autox@autox.team.net
Subject: RE: ackerman
From: GSMnow@aol.com
Date: Mon, 3 May 1999 09:32:10 EDT
In a message dated 5/2/99 2:31:46 AM Central Daylight Time, 
autox-owner@autox.team.net writes:

<< Date: Sat,  1 May 1999 16:47:53, -0500
 From: HPKY59A@prodigy.com ( BENNY   DEMENT)

 Ok I know that ackerman( what I call "toe out on turns")  is a 
 function of the angle of the steering arm.
 What I don't know is how to measure the amount. would like to know 
 for both rear steering arm locations and for front steering arm 
 locations.  Ya know ahead or behind the Axle.
 Benny Dement 56 CSP >>

The geometry of the steering arms and center link determine the ackerman 
angles. Measuring the effect can be tough. The basic rule is to take a line 
through the steering axis ( line between upper and lower ball joint) and the 
outer tie rod end and extend it to the rear of the car. Where the two lines 
meet will give a rough idea. If the meet behind the rear axle, you won't have 
enough to make the wheels remain toed out for average turns. In which case, 
some static toe out may help. If the lines cross right at the rear axle (or a 
line between the center of the rear tires for IRS folks) then with zero 
static toe, the wheels should be very close to proper toe in the curves. And 
if the lines cross in front of the rear axle, then the car will gain toe out 
as the wheels are turned tighter. This would allow some toe in for stable 
braking, and still get good wheel angles in the curves. 

That is only an approximation though, as the location of the steering rack, 
and the length of the tie rods will effect it too. The above assumes that 
there is one solic rod joining the ends of the two steering arms. 

A more precise way, (and possibly easier) is to use accurate turn plates 
under the wheels to get the true turn angle of each tire. Then you can plot 
where the spindle will point at a given turn angle. For visual types (Who 
don't like trig) you can draw a scale picture of the car with a dot at the 
center of each tire patch, and use a protractor to mark the angles of the 
front wheels. Extand the lines til they hit, and see where it intersects the 
rear wheel axis. If the two front tires cross ahead of the rear axle, the 
inside tire will be trying to produce a greater slip angle and will add to 
the turning force. Crossing behind the rear axle, the inside tire will be 
producing no slip angle, possibly even fighting the outside tire. Ideally 
they should intersect right on the axis of the rear tires, then the tire 
scrub will be minimum, and slip angles should be equal. For any one radius, 
the toe can be used to pput it where you want, but only perfect ackerman can 
make it the same at any turn radius. 

I set my toe to line them up at a 20 degree turn angle on the outside wheel. 
This is about the max I see at local autocross events. With my wheelbase and 
width, I needed just over 23 degrees at the inside wheel. The turn in was far 
better then with zero toe. 

JMHO of course, but I have tried it, and my times seem to back it up, too bad 
I also did other changes to the car, so I can't say this alone made the big 
difference.

Gary M.

<Prev in Thread] Current Thread [Next in Thread>