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Message-ID: <3C0FBCA4.FF6F7501@telus.net>
Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 10:44:53 -0800
From: Mike <Michael_Gee@telus.net>
Organization: OLK Productions
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To: meredydd francke <mereken@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Discs or drums]
References: <20011206022258.21065.qmail@web13808.mail.yahoo.com>
Hi,
I agree that Triumphs are expensive. A basic street car, the TR has
components that easily fail under continue stress on the track.
Actually what I meant to say was "entry level". However, when I thought
more about that and vintage racing and your comment about older,
successful, businessmen I came up with some prerequisite ideas.
Prerequisite ideas about the introduction to road racing.
Back in my racing days, 1960s, most of us went through an apprenticeship
off the track in parking lot gymkhanas, rally driving, hill climbs, go
carts, etc. We graduated to the track after a couple of years of this
experience, and we felt more competent and comfortable. More
importantly, we felt more safe with the skills of our racing buddies.
I can imagine the difficulties of older, successful, businessmen raring
to go to get that chequered flag without an iota of pevious competitive
driving.
I'm beginning to believe that vintage racing is more like a fairyland
with unreasonable aspirations, ill-equipped and ill-prepared drivers,
and a very defensive atttitude to recommendations for changes when it
comes to safety.
meredydd francke wrote:
> It is an interesting question with more than one
> answer - by the way, I especially liked your comment,
> "...less expensive cars such as Triumphs..." snicker.
> I have seen some pretty expensive Triumphs - not, of
> course on the same level as what's-his-name Johnson's
> Cortina, or Rahal, Sr.'s, Loti (I say Loti because he
> certainly wrecked a wide variety of them.) Anyway, a
> less expensive car doesn't necessarily mean that the
> components are not in good condition. Less expensive
> cars also tend to have smaller engines, si?
>
> I also think Vintage racing is in a microcosm of its
> own - so many new drivers are older, successful
> businessmen who want to get right out there and go
> fast immediately; they have the financial assets to
> spend whatever it takes, but it still takes practice,
> practice, practice to learn the limits of your car -
> tire adhesion, brakes, engine revs, etc.
>
> And last but not least, upgrades beget upgrades.
> Possibly the worst thing that ever happened to SCCA
> was fender flares. It led to wider tires, more engine
> mods, stickier tires, bigger flares, crankfire
> ignition, billet crankshafts, Carillo rods, more
> speed, more dollars, etc. Bert Levy wrote an article
> a few years back about going to the Runoffs and having
> a hard time recognizing the cars - the photo
> accompanying the article was of my husband's highly
> modified MG Midget, and it's true viewed front-on it
> looked like a monstrosity. A Vintage Triumph Club
> member, on viewing Fletcher Williams' TR6 at a
> national race at Moroso said, "What is it?" Seems to
> me that Vintage is the last bastion of reasonableness
> versus the "faster, Faster, FASTER" mentality - it
> keeps our cars looking like they were meant to look,
> and even if it keeps slower, it feels just as fast, or
> even faster because let's face it, they're old, and
> radial tires don't have the adhesion of slicks.
> --- Mike <Michael_Gee@telus.net> wrote:
> > Hi,
> > Thanks for your comments about braking and unstable
> > Spitfire rear ends.
> > Sometimes it's very difficult to get through the
> > rough edges of the
> > vintage list.
> > Hope you don't mind getting a copy of another reply
> > of mine.
> > Cheers,
> > Mike
> >
>
> > ATTACHMENT part 2 message/rfc822
> > Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 16:26:40 -0800
> > From: Mike <Michael_Gee@telus.net>
> > Organization: OLK Productions
> > To: Sadek Charles H DLVA <SadekCH@NSWC.NAVY.MIL>
> > Subject: Re: Discs or drums
> >
> > Chuck,
> > Thanks for your comments. Of course, there are
> > always drivers, new or old, who
> > exceed the safety limits of their cars. I don't
> > advocate putting everyone in a
> > safety coccon but rather giving the drivers some
> > margin of safety in vintage
> > racing, over or under 2L, especially when it comes
> > to braking.
> > Cheers,
> > Mike
> >
> > Sadek Charles H DLVA wrote:
> >
> > > Mike,
> > > With all due respect, maybe the new guys
> > should take it easy in
> > > their chosen car and not put themselves in
> > position to prang the rear of the
> > > car in front of them. I still try to leave a
> > margin even when the brakes
> > > are working very well. This is "Vintage" and your
> > car may mean something to
> > > you... ;>)
> > >
> > > Chuck Sadek
> > > YS73
> > >
> > > > Hi,
> > > > One other factor is that many new drivers in
> > vintage racing start off
> > > > with less expensive cars such as TR's and
> > Sprites etc. They can't
> > > > afford the more expensive models and thus should
> > have the extra safety
> > > > of disc brakes for obvious reasons..
> > > > Cheers,
> > > > Mike
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