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Re: What is Vintage?

To: vintage-race@Autox.Team.Net
Subject: Re: What is Vintage?
From: "Roger Garnett" <rwg1@cornell.edu>
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 1997 15:24:13 -0500
> what exactly constitutes allowable mods? 

One unmentioned issue, is "Why do the rules exist?"- what is the intent? And, 
are the results what was wanted? Generally, the original rules are for one of 
several good reasons- here are some:

-safety
-keep costs down
-level the playing field

There are obviously many ways to implement these, depending on the situation, 
and there are conflicts. There are unlimited series (IMSA GTP cars were great, 
but got very expensive), and spec series (everything the same?), then 
production or modified, with lists of what you can, or can't change. Everything 
is a balance, sometimes easier dealt with in a current series than in vintage.
Some current series require all stock interior trim- that alone would put a 
great many Historic & Vintage cars out of the running!

Some safety or cost improvements can make a car faster (Brakes, stiff cages, 
etc), while some might do the opposite (skinny tyres). Implementation takes 
work either way.

When one engine manufacturer discontinued a spec series engine, SCCA when and 
selected a different engine from another manufacturer, and even made 
conversion kits. Cost a bit, but it fixed the problem. A bit tougher with old 
stuff.

We say "original transmissions". Why? To keep those with unlimited funds from
spending them on the hottest spiff tranny and gears and putting others at a
disadvantage. But, what happens when the original is unavailable, unpractical,
or unsafe? A clearly stated exception can be the answer, when the change makes
sense for all. Maybe it's time for a ribcase exception for Sprite boxes?

[Or, should I go spend a bunch of extra cash to rebuild a smooth case I aquired
this spring- then I could squak about all the ribcases!]

When skinny "L" series tyres were not available, M's or others were accepted. 
L's are back in production, and are again the rule. But where do you have to 
have them, and how much time should be allowed to use up your old tyres? The 
guy who runs one or 2 events per year might make those tyres last for several 
years (Yes, small cars can be that easy on rubber), and shouldn't have to buy 
new tyres right away. On the other hand, the team with cubic money shouldn't be 
able to go and buy extras just before the change and be allowed to use them up 
as well.

Brian Evans writes:

> Engine:  you can do just about anything to the engine as long as you use the
> original type castings for block and head.

a level field rule.

> Bore can be up  to .065" over.

A cost factor. Many others only allow .040 inches. Allowing .065 keeps them 
running, despite wear...

> Common rule breakages?  

Another point here, is the differences in rules between various clubs. There 
are many good reasons for the way each club is run, but when each have 
different rules, **how do you prepare your car, if you want to play more than 
one place?** Some things will satisfy multiple rules, but rules from 2 clubs 
can directly conflict- which one will, or won't allow the others prep? 

What happens if SVRA complained about my .065 VARAC overbore (they officially
allow .040)? Or if VARAC doesn't like my SVRA legal tyre size once they 
convert to L's. In this case there's no total conflict, I just have to spend 
new money, replace working stuff, and go slower. In this case, I could prepare 
to the minimum common specs- just on these 2 points, I could make an .040 
engine, and get skinny wheels & tyres, and be legal for both. Of course, this 
could cost a lot, if I have to throw out an .065 engine, and wider tyres to do 
it. So much for lower cost. Or level field, as either could be a disadvantage 
when running against cars prepared strictly to that club's rules. Some rules 
conflicts aren't as pretty- I'm sure there's some good examples out there!

[To their credit- SVRA lets you declare your actual engine displacement, and 
reserves the right to bump you a class if deemed necessary. The bump is more 
likley come in to play for a 1098 or 1275 Bugeye, rather than a 948 bored to 
998.]

------------

If I've followed the story correctly, Europe has licked the club compatibily 
problem- Like it or not, everyone now runs under FIA rules. We could do that...
Or could we?

I suppose this would be easier if you could run with any club anywhere, but
there really isn't any club that covers all of North America, much less all of
the States. Sometimes, you have to work with what you live near, regardless of
your desires.

The only US National club with a vintage program, SCCA, have their own vintage
rules, and seem to have little interaction with the other clubs. But, even SCCA 
vintage is only active in a few scattered regions, and may allow different 
upgrades in each.

North America also has the Vintage Motorsports Council, but this is primarily a 
driver and club oversight organization- VMC may discuss rules, but they don't 
issue any car prep standards. Maybe they should?

Here in the East,  HSR is said to run just about anything, while VSCCA is one 
of the tightest for original configuration, to the point of excluding many 
original and proper age cars from the era of cars they choose to run. (No 
Triumphs, Sprites, Healey 6's, etc, even tho they are 1959 or older) 

Of course, Europe ran most races under FIA rules to begin with. In North 
America, there were, are, and probably will continue to be "rogue" clubs of 
various sorts who will do whatever they want to do locally, regardless what 
some national group says. Still, it might be a great advantage for the average 
owner/driver who wants to be able to run with more than one club to have an 
umbrella set of rules, at least as a base point.

Hmmm...

 ________________________________________________________________________
 Roger Garnett  (Roger-Garnett@cornell.edu)  http://www.wayward.team.net/
                  "The Wayward Sports Car Centre"
      "All donations of stray, orphaned, odd, neglected, etc.
       sports cars and bits in need of a good home accepted."
        "The drop off bin is right there- behind the barn..."

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