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[Fot] FW: brake pad and rotor discovery and update

Subject: [Fot] FW: brake pad and rotor discovery and update
From: cartravel at pobox.com (Larry Young)
Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2018 22:51:31 -0500
References: <1496073395.378283.1531254099121@connect.xfinity.com> <000001d4191c$23b6fac0$6b24f040$@gmail.com> <002101d4192b$ccfd2fa0$66f78ee0$@gmail.com> <5D3076785B8A61C5.41E5DF95-760C-4BB7-9248-CEC5A8426678@mail.outlook.com> <8E56E6CE-D9CC-46E5-A2C2-96E5166BE1E7@mhc-law.com> <5D3076785B8A61C5.D479DDDF-875A-4D7E-BFCE-999DCDA5B50B@mail.outlook.com> <9qLS1y03f16aDmg01qLTHN>
I'm surprised no one has mentioned the old clamshell TR3 rotors have 
pads with significantly larger area. I kept the old calipers for that 
reason. Newer isn't always better.
 ?- Larry

On 7/12/2018 8:56 AM, John H. Hasty via Fot wrote:
>
> I was wondering about exactly this.? The 6 rotor is 10.5? and the 3 
> rotor is 11?
>
>       
>
> *John H. Hasty*
>
> /Attorney at Law/
>
> *Mullen Holland & Cooper P.A.*
>
> 301 S. York St.,
>
> P.O. Box 488
>
> Gastonia, NC 28053
>
> 704.864.6751 (p) 704.861.8394 (f)
>
> mhc-law.com <http://mhc-law.com/>?| jhasty at mhc-law.com 
>
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> *From:* Ashley Page [mailto:apage at prosystembrakes.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 11, 2018 9:35 PM
> *To:* John H. Hasty <jhasty at mhc-law.com>
> *Cc:* timmmurphh at gmail.com; fot at autox.team.net
> *Subject:* Re: [Fot] FW: brake pad and rotor discovery and update
>
> As far as braking effect it?s simple math. Assuming the master 
> cylinder, pad compound and rotors ?are not changed then the calipers 
> with the largest dia pistons will, for a given pedal effort, generate 
> more clamping force. If you care to to go to extremes then you would 
> also factor in the distance from the axle center to the CG of the pad 
> friction which is the ?friction radius? - but that?s picking the fly 
> poop out of the pepper for what you are doing.
>
> Other considerations:
>
> Assuming the TR6 caliper will bolt up to the TR3 knuckle, you would 
> need to make sure the rotor path through the caliper would accept the 
> bigger rotor- likely would but should be checked. At some point a 
> rotor with larger dia than the caliper is designed for will touch the 
> rotor path at the ends of the caliper (to small of rotor will touch in 
> the path next to the pad opening). In both those extremes the pads 
> typically won?t fit either.
>
> Another issue to check is rotor thickness. If the TR3 rotor is thinner 
> then make sure as the pads wear that a caliper piston can?t come out 
> of the caliper.
>
> Also check the pad to make sure it?s annulus is not larger than the 
> TR3 rotor. You don?t want overhang or under hang of friction material. 
> Also you want the friction to cover the rotor with very little unused 
> swept area of rotor ID or OD. To much unused iron can be a problem also.
>
> Get Outlook for iOS <https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 11, 2018 at 8:23 PM -0400, "John H. Hasty" 
>
>     What is the effect of using TR6 calipers designed for use on 10.75
>     rotors on TR3 11? rotors ?
>
>     Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>     On Jul 11, 2018, at 6:27 PM, Ashley Page via Fot
>
>         As Glenn pointed out ID to OD taper happens with some pads.
>
>         Can also be a sign of loose wheel bearings.
>
>         But probably as he describes due to higher rubbing speed on OD.
>
>         You can easily taper cut the pads with a 4? diamond masonry
>         blade from just about any hardware or Lowe?s. You can do it
>         with any number of ways even a hacksaw but anything but
>         diamond will wear quickly
>
>         Get Outlook for iOS <https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
>
>
>
>         On Wed, Jul 11, 2018 at 2:08 PM -0400, "timmmurphh--- via Fot"
>
>             *Sent:* Wednesday, July 11, 2018 8:36 AM
>             *To:* 'DAVE HOGYE' <dlhogye at comcast.net
>             *Subject:* RE: [Fot] brake pad and rotor discovery and update
>
>             Thanks for this report.? We have had some issues with the
>             Carbotech pads on our TR4 at Blackhawk and the Kcup.? We
>             use the CT2-XP10 compound.? I will check our pad to
>             caliper slot clearance.? Does anyone know offhand of the
>             slot on the 16P calipers on our TR4 is the same as the TR3
>             at 3.095??
>
>             Tim Murphy
>
>             #317 TR4
>
>             *From:* Fot <fot-bounces at autox.team.net
>             HOGYE via Fot
>             *Sent:* Tuesday, July 10, 2018 3:22 PM
>             *To:* Friends of Triumph <Fot at autox.team.net
>             *Subject:* [Fot] brake pad and rotor discovery and update
>
>             Hello Friends,
>
>             I have been finding out quite a bit about the unusual and
>             developing front brake pad, rotor and caliper issues that
>             I have discovered on my TR3.
>
>             What I found was that the Carbotech CT-57 pads were
>             causing the problem.
>
>             The supporting or backing plates of the pads had been
>             ground down at Carbotech, far under the normal plate width
>             that I measured in 4 other production pads that I have on
>             hand. Besides that, they were not ground down squarely.
>
>             This allowed the piston to take tremendous side load under
>             braking causing the uneven and diagonal wear pattern in
>             the pads.? This also caused the rotor to contact the
>             caliper as the pads took on heavy uneven wear.
>
>             The slot in the TR6 caliper is 3.095" and the four
>             non-Carbotech pads sets have a plate width of no less than
>             3.082".? The Carbotech plates have an out of square
>             measurement of 3.030-3.050".? That's as much as .065"
>             clearance in the caliper slot.
>
>             The plates have too much clearance.? I found that a
>             maximum of .010" backing plate to caliper slot clearance
>             is more normal.? One set of pads have only .005" clearance.
>
>             Furthermore, the corners of the Carbotech plates and pads
>             were ground down far enough that the lower end of the pads
>             hardly made contact with the caliper slot allowing more
>             stress on the caliper piston.
>
>             I have been going back and forth with Carbotech on this
>             matter and I will be sending back the badly worn set along
>             with a brand set that have the same production issues.? I
>             bought the two sets at the same time last August.
>
>             What I found is that any backing plates that show evidence
>             of sanding or grinding marks should be measured for proper
>             clearance, but that really, there should be no sanding or
>             grinding marks...ever.
>
>             All of the other pads I have show no evidence of sanding
>             or grinding marks.? The previously shaped friction pads
>             are cleanly attached to the backing plates and the backing
>             plate is revealed around the friction material.? Only the
>             backing plate makes contact with the caliper slot.
>
>             It looks like I have to find another race pad supplier.
>
>             Thoughts?
>
>             Dave H.
>
>             831-234-4928
>
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