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SU query please (longish)

To: triumphs@autox.team.net
Subject: SU query please (longish)
From: "Jim Muller" <jimmuller@pop.mail.rcn.net>
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 20:15:53 -0400
Organization: Southern Rail
Some help/info, please.

I've been chasing an issue on my GT6 since I purchased it.  Some 
background:  A PPO (Previous Previous Owner) installed HS4's.  When I 
took delivery the PO admitted that an LBC "specialty shop" had 
screwed it up in preparation for his sale, and at that time it 
wouldn't rev above 3000 rpms.  He knew very little about cars and 
couldn't tell me much technical.

I've gotten it to run pretty well, but it still has a problem.  Idle 
is okay, not superb, and no amount of fiddling seems to make much 
difference.  At full-throttle it runs like an escaped pig at a pig 
roast, but at part-throttle (which mostly means cruising) it acts 
like it is too lean.  I can feel it miss frequently, and the exhaust 
always smells like incomplete combustion.  It also takes more time 
than I would expect before I can push the choke in.  Now that the 
weather has gotten colder the problem seems worse.  And it has always 
been a bit tough to launch, requiring rather more starting rpms than 
I would expect, especially when cold.  (I'm beginning to wonder if 
the previous PPO also installed a non-stock cam.  It sure had a non-
stock, noisy muffler.)

I've checked for air leaks (can't find any but I'll check again, 
maybe re-seat the carb/manifold spacers with some appropriate glue-
like stuff), replaced some stuff like throttle shafts, jets (one was 
leaking), etc.  Incremental enrichment hasn't helped.  A 
knowledgeable LBC person once observed that the needles weren't 
matched and that at least one was for an emissions-controlled MGB.  
So one possible solution is that the needles be replaced.  I've seen 
tables of SU needle numbers but I would have no idea how to select 
good ones for this application.  Any advice would be appreciated.  
Think of it as a displacement-challenged TR6 engine. :-)

Another possible issue is the float level.  I know the procedure, 
tweak the float arm until such and such a drill bit fits under the 
arm, etc.  But a GT6 engine points uphill at the front.  Unless the 
carb mounts accomodate this, this means that on the front carb, which 
has the float bowl in front of the jet, the fuel level would be 
slightly high w.r.t. the jet.  On the rear carb, the fuel level would 
be slightly low.  I don't recall how or even if I ended up dealing 
with this when I last looked at the float levels.  The manifold mod 
(drilling and installing new mounting studs to hold the SU's) was not 
done with super alignment.  This brings me to my SU question.

How does float level affect the behavior of an SU- or ZS-type carb?  
On an SU, both the choke and the mixture adjustment simply pull the 
jet down.  The needle is tapered but the jet itself is a constant-
bore cylinder, no?  So the effective opening of the jet is increased 
only over that portion of the jet near the top, specifically over the 
portion within the range of motion of the jet's top surface.  The 
fuel level doesn't change, so the needle width at the top of the fuel 
level stays the same, and this is where the gas is drawn from.  Thus 
the choke position and the mixture nut really make only a small 
difference in how easily the gas is drawn up.  The only thing I can 
think of that modifies this explanation is that when the engine is 
running, the effective fuel level is at a dynamic position above the 
top of the jet.  Here's an ASCII picture.

 _\        /_  <- position of jet top w/lean mixture setting
|__\      /__| <- position of jet top w/rich mixture setting
|   \    /   |
|~~~~\  /~~~~| <- fuel level
|     \/     |
|            |

Now consider the float level.  The gas has to be drawn up against 
gravity, so the height between the at-rest fuel level and the venturi 
would seem very important.  If one carb's float level was too low, 
that would make drawing its gas difficult, and no amount of mixture-
nut tweaking would fix it.  So a low float level is a possible cause 
of a carb seeming too lean.  I do know that when I look down into the 
jets, one of the fuel levels is noticeably lower than the other.  But 
I have no idea how this translates into actual running, whether the 
various balance in pressures makes this show up more at cruising or 
accelerating or what.  Maybe even one level is too high and the 
mixture nut is compensating for it the opposite direction!

My only data is how the car behaves.  An air leak would show up more 
at part-throttle than full, but I can't find any.  So I'm thrashing 
around for more knowledge.  And I don't believe this carb problem is 
electrical!

If anyone can give me insight into the voodoo of SU needle-ism or 
explain the practical results of float-level error, please do so!

Tanks,

-- 
Jim Muller
jimmuller@pop.rcn.com
'80 Spitfire, '70 GT6+

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