On Thu, 8 Jun 2000 KBair33@aol.com wrote:
I CC'd the triumphs list on this one... not sure why.
> Thanks for the info. I was able to locate a copy of the Practical Classics
> book for restoring a TR6 in the UK today.
You're welcome and glad you found a copy of the book.
> Question, arn't the floor pans attached to the outer and inner sills?
Actually, the floor pan piece includes the lower part of the sill. Put
another way, the floor pans sit on the frame, and the outer section turns
90 degrees _down_ to form the back-side of the sill.
The outer sill then attaches along the bottom of the floor pan and to the
"A" and "B" posts as well as the "kick panel" and lower part of the rear
inner wing.
The "inner sill" connects to the floor pan and to the outer sill.
All three pieces collectively make a boxed section that provides much of
the longitudinal "stiffness" of the body shell. I quoted stiffness,
because the body shell is not exactly stiff, at least by the standards
set by more modern cars...
> Do I
> cut out the floor pan and reweld or tack it to the old sill then cut out the
> outer sill, tack in the outer then remove the inner sill and tack in same?
The answer depends on what you need to do.
If the floor is basically gone, you can do one of two methods.
If you want concours/factory appearance:
1. cut the floor out as close as you can to the rear parcel-shelf "drop
downs", the driveshaft tunnel, the front lower firewall section and the
inner sill.
2. Then, using a grinder, cut the leftover metal back to expose the
"flanges" on the remaining pieces.
3. dress the flanges so that they are square and true. This takes a lot
of time.
4. using about 1 million vise-grips, attach the new floor pan in place.
DO NOT WELD ANYTHING UNTIL YOU MAKE SURE THAT EVERYHING IS SQUARE!!!!!
5. Once you are certain that everything is square, then weld wherever you
wish. The correct method is a spot welder with long tongs... most folks
drill out the new panel and plug weld with a small Mig welder. Get a good
welder!
6. Once the floor is in place, repair the outer sill in the same manner.
7. once the outer sill is in place, then repair the inner sill.
Now if you don't care about concours - then cut the floor back to any
places that are original thickness. The floor is 18 gauge, I think.
Anyway, then, using templates, remove material from the new floor pans
and fit them in. This method can be stronger than the concours method
because you leave the factory welds in place... but you need to "seam"
weld both sides of the flanges that you create...
> Won't this make the body sag or is the inner body structure light enough that
> it will stay square before all the pieces are welded back in? ( What a run on
> sentence huh? and probably 40-60 hours worth of work).
You need to "stabilize" the body before you cut any metal out. Most folks
brace the door openings by welding or bolting angle iron across... they
then lift the body onto a "buck" made out of 2 X 6's to hold it steady
for the cutting/welding.
The good part about doing the work "off" the frame is that you can cut
metal and not worry about cutting the frame. Don't laugh - I know pros
that have accidentally cut into the frames.
As for time - don't even think about trying to calculate the time. My
most recent project took easily 300 hours to get the body shell straight
and fully intact. I actually pulled and placed the body on/off the frame
no fewer than 10 times to make sure everything lined up.
To put that into perspective, I cut my floors out on January 10th, 1999.
I was ready for the first coat of primer sometime in May '99. I worked on
the car 4 nights a week (4 hours min) and at least one full weekend day.
Towards April, I could see I was "getting behind" and I had a ton of
unused vacation days. So, for April, all of May and part of June, I also
took one full day per week - just to work on the car. So, revise my
estimate above to several hundred hours before I could put any paint on
the car.
Really.
Now, I don't have a clue about what I'm doing, this was my first big
welding/metal job. When I got my floors and outer and inner sills in, I
then had to fabriate lots of little pieces to fix holes here and there in
the remaining body pieces. I _could_ have purchased new metal for those
things too - but I was on a tight budget, and all I could afford was
sheets of 18 guage steel at Home Depot (and around 10 bottles of
CO2/Argon and hundreds of grinding disks and welding wire by the mile...)
The job is very labor intensive.
Plus, doing the job by yourself takes a lot longer because you have to
move stuff around, reposition, put out your burning clothing from
time-to-time (don't laugh!, I got at least 2 ea. 3rd degree burns from
welding slag). If you have help, at least there's someone to take you to
the hospital if you really screw up.
Oh - and get a tetanus shot _before_ you start. You won't believe how
many cuts you'll get. I used up 6 pairs of "mechanix" gloves in the 5 months.
I wound up securing a large chain-fall to my garage ceiling to help me do
this job. Some folks build a "spine" for the body topside so they can
lift the body straight off and not "ding" the topside metal. A really good
idea for a concours job.
> Do you have a parts preference: Moss or the Roadster Factory? I have the
> floor pans already, they came with the car. (from Roadster Factory) I will
> need to add some extra medal in the front firewall where the floor meets it.
> Rusted out there on both sides.
My preference is whoever has the parts when I need them.
I actually accumulated parts for about 1 year before I started
cutting/welding my last project.
> Thanks again for responding to my email and the use of your time and
> expertise.
No prob.
> Ken
I'll interject a last question on your behalf:
Was it worth it??
You betcha!
rml
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