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I have a lot on my plate right now so this will have to be brief. =
I=E2=80=99m replying to Mike=E2=80=99s earlier post and not =
Jim=E2=80=99s mods.
=20
In Mike Jones=E2=80=99 talk a few weeks ago at SUNI he described some of =
the challenges that he, Kevin Beattie and the Rootes engineers =
encountered when they put the Tiger into production. He mentioned that =
they knew that the rack position made anti-Ackerman an inevitable =
problem, but they were under a deadline to put the car into immediate =
production. They did design a MK2 version would have larger =
14=E2=80=9Dwheels which could accommodate longer steering arms to lessen =
the problem as well as the larger 3-puck Girling brake package used on =
the Cobras and Austin Martins on all corners. But by the time the Mk2 =
was produced these were eliminated and only Mike=E2=80=99s relocation of =
the Panhard bar mount survived, chassis-wise.
=20
So we all know the Tiger=E2=80=99s Ackerman is terrible. It also suffers =
from a complete lack of camber gain. And its bump steer is horrendous. =
(We=E2=80=99ve carefully measured all of them.) One discovery that =
prompted a chuckle was that when the Tiger takes a set in a hard turn =
the bump steer is so bad it actually corrects some of the Ackerman =
problems. I pointed this out to Mike and expected him to identify an =
engineer who came up with this entirely creative band-aid but instead he =
said he was sure it was completely unintentional. That immediately let =
the air out of my balloon.
=20
As far as aftermarket fixes, Dale=E2=80=99s numbers look great for =
ackerman, camber gain and bump steer. I=E2=80=99ve driven Tigers with =
Hokansen=E2=80=99s mod and they drive nice but I never have seen his =
numbers.
=20
As far as mods to the stock suspension, the main problem for me is =
Camber gain. When the chassis rolls it rotates the inside of the tire =
patches off the pavement. Any real fix needs the ball joints to be an =
inch or two further apart. The Tiger spindle weighs half what a =
Pinto=E2=80=99s does. It=E2=80=99s flimsy in comparison. We have seen =
enough flexing on the race track that I have been scared to space the =
ball joints further apart. We built a spaced a setup and did a one-day =
test with it at Willow and it worked but it now sits on the shelf due to =
my reluctance to take on more risk. MG arms take a little of the =
problem away as does milling off the =E2=80=9Cfeet=E2=80=9D on the rack =
but the aftermarket solution of putting the rack under the motor =
addresses all those problems. I think Dale is still selling his =
replacement crossmember front suspension but I suspect they will now =
cost you more than $5K.
=20
As to the electric power steering from Europe, I=E2=80=99ve installed =
and tested it. It=E2=80=99s fine around town and on twisty roads however =
I can=E2=80=99t get enough caster into a Tiger to make it reasonable to =
use on the open road. It has too much friction for our cars to overcome =
it and track straight on the highway. You have correct constantly. For =
an hour or two that=E2=80=99s OK. It=E2=80=99s so much work that an 8 or =
10 hour cross country day became impossible for me. So it now also sets =
on a shelf in the garage. I=E2=80=99m expanding the garage.
Buck Trippel=20
=20
=20
From: Tigers <tigers-bounces@autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Michael Wood =
via Tigers
Sent: Friday, October 1, 2021 9:37 AM
To: garywinblad@comcast.net; blance598@gmail.com; tigers@autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Front suspension
=20
I'm far from expert...maybe a layman open to experimenting lol=20
=20
I think a lot of guys building Mustangs, Camaros etc still do the Shelby =
drop (relocating the upper control arm downwards). But, I don't know how =
it would work on a Tiger, as we run into control arm clearance to =
unibody issues pretty quickly at the fastener to the rear (if you follow =
what I'm saying) when shimming for negative camber. That clearance =
becomes even less when you start looking at dropping the physical =
location of the UCA. So, the question would be whether the negative =
camber gained in drop would offset the loss of ability to shim, I guess. =
But, yeah, the camber curve should improve.=20
=20
Wonder if anyone has done it?
=20
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: GARY WINBLAD <garywinblad@comcast.net =
Sent: Fri, Oct 1, 2021 9:23 am
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Front suspension
Mike,=20
Thanks for your expert analysis!=20
Yes, I never did find what Ackerman is best either.. I heard Doane =
speak and he said the reverse Ackerman is actually an advantage when you =
are=20
countersteering (what I think he meant). I wrote a program to figure =
out how it works on the Tiger. Turns out Ackerman is not really that =
bad until=20
you get to pretty extreme steering angles, so on a big track it isn't =
really that bad. And with initial toe-out dialed in it might not be =
that bad on a really=20
tight course. And because of the fulcrum pin issue, I NEVER go full =
lock anymore, even parking.=20
Yeah camber... why did the lowered a-arm trick seem to work back in the =
day but isn't used anymore? The GT-350s I have looked at still have it. =
I know it was bad for braking but so is initial negative camber?=20
Heavy steering, why I left my big stock steering wheel.=20
Gary=20
=20
On 10/01/2021 11:54 AM Michael Wood <mwood24020@aol.com =
=20
=20
Gary, I think you nailed it, reverse Ackermann leads to some funky slip =
angles and strangely heavy steering, particularly felt at low =
speeds...the front tires are literally fighting each other. The fact we =
all typically add wider wheels makes the steering even heavier (both =
contact patch to move around and scrub radius). Finally, maxing out =
caster with wedges (which I do) makes it even worse! =20
The longer MG steering arms help, I've found on cars I've driven so =
equipped, but I haven't bothered to do on my car. Toe out changes the =
slip angle and also helps get the car to turn in, but I only go to toe =
out (1/4") when autocrossing, as toe out also is a great way to kill =
tires. Besides the poor camber curve, Ackerman is another reason why I =
run as much negative camber as possible...if the outside wheel isn't =
technically aligned to the turn radius correctly, at least I can =
maximize the unaligned contact patch in roll lol. Funny thing, even the =
real experts I've read can't seem to agree on "Ackermann", because there =
are so many other variables.=20
I don't know, outside of a custom solution like Dale's or Hokanson's =
front ends, of a real fix. I've just learned to live with heavy =
steering, but if it really is a problem, going to stock width wheels and =
smaller section width tires really makes a difference. The electric =
power steering solution has gotten to be a pretty easy deal, but that =
obviously does nothing to address the underlying geometry issues.=20
Mike=20
-----Original Message-----=20
From: GARY WINBLAD <garywinblad@comcast.net =
Sent: Fri, Oct 1, 2021 7:42 am=20
Subject: Re: [Tigers] Front suspension=20
Lance,=20
There are a couple more expensive solutions that might be still =
available.=20
Dale did design and make an entire front crossmember/suspension. It =
fixed the geometry but was about $5K=20
last I heard, and he might have stopped making them.=20
People (mostly in EU) have put in electric power steering. It mounts up =
under the dash so it all looks stock,=20
would be great in a parking lot or tight course. Others have put in =
conventional hydraulic power steering.=20
Shelby had his guys put in a Miata power rack in his wife's Tiger for =
instance.=20
Gary=20
=20
On 10/01/2021 9:36 AM Lance Beauchamp <blance598@gmail.com =
=20
=20
So it is what it is, end of story, thank very much for a really good =
explanation, still love the car. Beau =20
=20
On Thu, Sep 30, 2021, 10:13 PM GARY WINBLAD <garywinblad@comcast.net =
HI Lance,=20
Steering geometry is a real problem. Shelby throwing the rack way out =
in front of the engine was a quick solution.=20
Rootes didn't want to change a Shelby design... so we suffer today. =
Doane knew it was a problem but he thought=20
Rootes would build a new crossmember.=20
The problem is when you go around a corner, the inside wheel needs to =
run a smaller radius turn than the outside.=20
Toe in on turns or Ackerman geometry is what it is called. The Tiger =
has reverse Ackerman, the inner wheel turns=20
a larger radius! When I used to push my Tiger out to my slightly =
downhill driveway it was easier to turn the wheel=20
full lock than to reach down and pull the parking brake... what a great =
design Shelby!=20
On a tight autocross course or a parking lot this is really less than =
ideal... MIKE analysis??=20
On a big course it might not make such a difference though Jim Adams =
said he had to "toss the Tiger like a sprint=20
car" (keeping it jumping and sliding rather than be smooth.. I hear =
that as...).=20
=20
Longer MGB steering arms and initial toe-out is the small solution Dale =
has...=20
You may notice, its hard to turn the wheel at slow speeds, especially =
with big sticky tires.=20
But once you go into a fairly tight turn, it becomes easier as both =
tires lose contact.. and the Tiger goes straight=20
off the corner...=20
=20
Mike, do I have it anywhere correct?=20
Gary W.=20
=20
On 09/30/2021 9:55 PM Lance Beauchamp <blance598@gmail.com =
=20
=20
You say you spend alot of time on suspension Gary, can you tell me how =
to make the Tiger easier to turn at lower speeds, like 15 mph or under. =
I always blame the steering geometry, is it all that? Beau =20
_______________________________________________=20
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers =
<http://www.team.net/pipermail/tigers> http://autox.team.net/archive=20
Unsubscribe: =
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/mwood24020@aol.com=20
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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple style=3D'word-wrap:break-word'><div =
class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal>I have a lot on my plate right =
now so this will have to be brief. I=E2=80=99m replying to =
Mike=E2=80=99s earlier post and not Jim=E2=80=99s mods.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>In Mike =
Jones=E2=80=99 talk a few weeks ago at SUNI he described some of the =
challenges that he, Kevin Beattie and the Rootes engineers encountered =
when they put the Tiger into production. He mentioned that they knew =
that the rack position made anti-Ackerman an inevitable problem, but =
they were under a deadline to put the car into immediate production. =
They did design a MK2 version would have larger 14=E2=80=9Dwheels which =
could accommodate longer steering arms to lessen the problem as well as =
the larger 3-puck Girling brake package used on the Cobras and Austin =
Martins on all corners. But by the time the Mk2 was produced these were =
eliminated and only Mike=E2=80=99s relocation of the Panhard bar mount =
survived, chassis-wise.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>So we all =
know the Tiger=E2=80=99s Ackerman is terrible. It also suffers from a =
complete lack of camber gain. And its bump steer is horrendous. =
(We=E2=80=99ve carefully measured all of them.) One discovery that =
prompted a chuckle was that when the Tiger takes a set in a hard turn =
the bump steer is so bad it actually corrects some of the Ackerman =
problems. I pointed this out to Mike and expected him to identify an =
engineer who came up with this entirely creative band-aid but instead he =
said he was sure it was completely unintentional. That immediately let =
the air out of my balloon.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>As far as =
aftermarket fixes, Dale=E2=80=99s numbers look great for ackerman, =
camber gain and bump steer. I=E2=80=99ve driven Tigers with =
Hokansen=E2=80=99s mod and they drive nice but I never have seen his =
numbers.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>As far as mods to the stock suspension, the main =
problem for me is Camber gain. When the chassis rolls it rotates the =
inside of the tire patches off the pavement. Any real fix needs the ball =
joints to be an inch or two further apart. The Tiger spindle weighs half =
what a Pinto=E2=80=99s does. It=E2=80=99s flimsy in comparison. We have =
seen enough flexing on the race track that I have been scared to space =
the ball joints further apart. We built a spaced a setup and did a =
one-day test with it at Willow and it worked but it now sits on the =
shelf due to my reluctance to take on more risk.=C2=A0 MG arms take a =
little of the problem away as does milling off the =
=E2=80=9Cfeet=E2=80=9D on the rack but the aftermarket solution of =
putting the rack under the motor addresses all those problems. I think =
Dale is still selling his replacement crossmember front suspension but I =
suspect they will now cost you more than $5K.<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>As to the =
electric power steering from Europe, I=E2=80=99ve installed and tested =
it. It=E2=80=99s fine around town and on twisty roads however I =
can=E2=80=99t get enough caster into a Tiger to make it reasonable to =
use on the open road. It has too much friction for our cars to overcome =
it and track straight on the highway. You have correct constantly. For =
an hour or two that=E2=80=99s OK. It=E2=80=99s so much work that an 8 or =
10 hour cross country day became impossible for me. So it now also sets =
on a shelf in the garage. I=E2=80=99m expanding the =
garage.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Buck Trippel <o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b>From:</b> Tigers =
<tigers-bounces@autox.team.net> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Michael Wood =
via Tigers<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, October 1, 2021 9:37 AM<br><b>To:</b> =
garywinblad@comcast.net; blance598@gmail.com; =
tigers@autox.team.net<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Tigers] Front =
suspension<o:p></o:p></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>I'm=
far from expert...maybe a layman open to experimenting =
lol <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>I =
think a lot of guys building Mustangs, Camaros etc still do the Shelby =
drop (relocating the upper control arm downwards). But, I don't know how =
it would work on a Tiger, as we run into control arm clearance to =
unibody issues pretty quickly at the fastener to the rear (if you follow =
what I'm saying) when shimming for negative camber. That clearance =
becomes even less when you start looking at dropping the physical =
location of the UCA. So, the question would be whether the negative =
camber gained in drop would offset the loss of ability to shim, I guess. =
But, yeah, the camber curve should =
improve. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Won=
der if anyone has done it?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Mik=
e<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><br=
><br>-----Original Message-----<br>From: GARY WINBLAD <<a =
href=3D"mailto:garywinblad@comcast.net";>garywinblad@comcast.net</a>><b=
r>To: Michael Wood <<a =
href=3D"mailto:mwood24020@aol.com";>mwood24020@aol.com</a>>; <a =
href=3D"mailto:blance598@gmail.com";>blance598@gmail.com</a> <<a =
href=3D"mailto:blance598@gmail.com";>blance598@gmail.com</a>>; <a =
href=3D"mailto:tigers@autox.team.net";>tigers@autox.team.net</a> <<a =
href=3D"mailto:tigers@autox.team.net";>tigers@autox.team.net</a>><br>Se=
nt: Fri, Oct 1, 2021 9:23 am<br>Subject: Re: [Tigers] Front =
suspension<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div =
id=3Dyiv1610308570><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Mik=
e, <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Tha=
nks for your expert analysis! <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Yes=
, I never did find what Ackerman is best either.. I heard Doane =
speak and he said the reverse Ackerman is actually an advantage when you =
are <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>cou=
ntersteering (what I think he meant). I wrote a program to figure =
out how it works on the Tiger. Turns out Ackerman is not really =
that bad until <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>you=
get to pretty extreme steering angles, so on a big track it isn't =
really that bad. And with initial toe-out dialed in it might not =
be that bad on a really <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>tig=
ht course. And because of the fulcrum pin issue, I NEVER go full =
lock anymore, even parking. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Yea=
h camber... why did the lowered a-arm trick seem to work back in the day =
but isn't used anymore? The GT-350s I have looked at still have =
it. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>I =
know it was bad for braking but so is initial negative camber? =
<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Hea=
vy steering, why I left my big stock steering wheel. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Gar=
y <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p> </o:p></span></p></div><div =
id=3Dyiv1610308570yqt43507><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>On =
10/01/2021 11:54 AM Michael Wood <<a =
href=3D"mailto:mwood24020@aol.com";>mwood24020@aol.com</a>> wrote: =
<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Gar=
y, I think you nailed it, reverse Ackermann leads to some funky slip =
angles and strangely heavy steering, particularly felt at low =
speeds...the front tires are literally fighting each other. The fact we =
all typically add wider wheels makes the steering even heavier (both =
contact patch to move around and scrub radius). Finally, maxing out =
caster with wedges (which I do) makes it even worse! =
<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>The=
longer MG steering arms help, I've found on cars I've driven so =
equipped, but I haven't bothered to do on my car. Toe out changes the =
slip angle and also helps get the car to turn in, but I only go to toe =
out (1/4") when autocrossing, as toe out also is a great way to =
kill tires. Besides the poor camber curve, Ackerman is another reason =
why I run as much negative camber as possible...if the outside wheel =
isn't technically aligned to the turn radius correctly, at least I can =
maximize the unaligned contact patch in roll lol. Funny thing, even the =
real experts I've read can't seem to agree on "Ackermann", =
because there are so many other variables. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>I =
don't know, outside of a custom solution like Dale's or Hokanson's front =
ends, of a real fix. I've just learned to live with heavy steering, but =
if it really is a problem, going to stock width wheels and smaller =
section width tires really makes a difference. The electric power =
steering solution has gotten to be a pretty easy deal, but that =
obviously does nothing to address the underlying geometry issues. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Mik=
e <br><br><br>-----Original Message----- <br>From: GARY WINBLAD <<a =
href=3D"mailto:garywinblad@comcast.net";>garywinblad@comcast.net</a>> =
<br>To: Lance Beauchamp <<a =
href=3D"mailto:blance598@gmail.com";>blance598@gmail.com</a>>; Tiger =
List <<a =
href=3D"mailto:tigers@autox.team.net";>tigers@autox.team.net</a>> =
<br>Sent: Fri, Oct 1, 2021 7:42 am <br>Subject: Re: [Tigers] Front =
suspension <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div =
id=3Dyiv1610308570><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Lan=
ce, <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>&nb=
sp;There are a couple more expensive solutions that might be still =
available. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Dal=
e did design and make an entire front crossmember/suspension. It =
fixed the geometry but was about $5K <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>las=
t I heard, and he might have stopped making them. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Peo=
ple (mostly in EU) have put in electric power steering. It mounts =
up under the dash so it all looks stock, =
<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>wou=
ld be great in a parking lot or tight course. Others have put in =
conventional hydraulic power steering. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>She=
lby had his guys put in a Miata power rack in his wife's Tiger for =
instance. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Gar=
y <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p> </o:p></span></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>On =
10/01/2021 9:36 AM Lance Beauchamp <<a =
href=3D"mailto:blance598@gmail.com";>blance598@gmail.com</a>> wrote: =
<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>So =
it is what it is, end of story, thank very much for a really good =
explanation, still love the car. Beau =
<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p> </o:p></span></p><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>On =
Thu, Sep 30, 2021, 10:13 PM GARY WINBLAD <<a =
href=3D"mailto:garywinblad@comcast.net"; =
target=3D"_blank">garywinblad@comcast.net</a>> wrote: =
<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>HI =
Lance, <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Ste=
ering geometry is a real problem. Shelby throwing the rack way out =
in front of the engine was a quick solution. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Roo=
tes didn't want to change a Shelby design... so we suffer today. =
Doane knew it was a problem but he thought =
<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Roo=
tes would build a new crossmember. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>The=
problem is when you go around a corner, the inside wheel needs to run a =
smaller radius turn than the outside. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Toe=
in on turns or Ackerman geometry is what it is called. The =
Tiger has reverse Ackerman, the inner wheel turns =
<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>a =
larger radius! When I used to push my Tiger out to my slightly =
downhill driveway it was easier to turn the wheel =
<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>ful=
l lock than to reach down and pull the parking brake... what a great =
design Shelby! <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>On =
a tight autocross course or a parking lot this is really less than =
ideal... MIKE analysis?? <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>On =
a big course it might not make such a difference though Jim Adams said =
he had to "toss the Tiger like a sprint =
<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>car=
" (keeping it jumping and sliding rather than be smooth.. I =
hear that as...). <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Lon=
ger MGB steering arms and initial toe-out is the small solution Dale =
has... <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>You=
may notice, its hard to turn the wheel at slow speeds, especially with =
big sticky tires. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>But=
once you go into a fairly tight turn, it becomes easier as both tires =
lose contact.. and the Tiger goes straight =
<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>off=
the corner... <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Mik=
e, do I have it anywhere correct? <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>Gar=
y W. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p> </o:p></span></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>On =
09/30/2021 9:55 PM Lance Beauchamp <<a =
href=3D"mailto:blance598@gmail.com"; =
target=3D"_blank">blance598@gmail.com</a>> wrote: =
<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'><o:=
p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>You=
say you spend alot of time on suspension Gary, can you tell me how to =
make the Tiger easier to turn at lower speeds, like 15 mph or under. I =
always blame the steering geometry, is it all =
that? Beau =
<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></blockquote></div></blockquote></div></block=
quote></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>___=
____________________________________________ <br><br><a =
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<br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div>=
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