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Thanks Tom, but I knew all that..
What I was wondering was what tie rod ends
or machining on the steering arms did you
have to do? The Alpine arms are slightly
longer than the MGB arms and should help
even more, that was part of Doane's race
mods IIRC. I haven' t heard of anyone else
using the stock rack like you. Did you have
to "unbend" the rack arms and did you make
sure you didn't run out of rack ball joint
travel? You should be able to do your own
precision alignment using the "strings"
method, I do.
Gary
Sent from my iPhone
> On May 20, 2015, at 6:31 PM, Tom Parker <tkparker1941@gmail.com> wrote:
>=20
> Hi Gary, and Buck,
>=20
> First, Buck's right, and I think I implied that. The MGB arms DO NOT fix t=
he Ackerman Angle issue in the Tiger. "The best we can hope for is a steerin=
g angle of about zero degrees with the stock crossmember." The issue is th=
e MGA rack George fitted to the Alpine crossmember is way too far forward, a=
nd it isn't possible to get close to a proper Ackerman Angle. It isn't, imho=
, a problem with the rack, it's with the mounting position. For about $10,00=
0 Dale can "fix" the problem by constructing a new crossmember with the rack=
in a straight line with the steering arms. Is it that simple? No, and I won=
't begin to try to understand the math involved. See DrMayf's article.
>=20
> What the arms do is what we both said earlier: the make the steering a bit=
easier, and they reduce the tire scrub a bit. That's all. The MGB arms are=
about an inch longer than the stock Tiger arms. It's about as far as you ca=
n go, and it requires 15" or larger wheels.
>=20
> There are a few "solutions to the problem. I know the redesigned crossmemb=
er works, and I'be seen Alpine spindles reversed (swapped side to side) with=
Alpine steering arms to the front, but I don't know how close it comes to s=
olving anything. And I don't know if that "fix" works with the Tiger rack.
>=20
> Now to the MGB steering arms: Randy Willett (willett581@msn.com) did the m=
odification. It involved elongating the center mounting hole a bit and addin=
g a spacer to align the arm "parallel" (more or less) to the spindle. I torq=
ued it down to Tiger specs, Randy argued for a bit more torque. He supplied g=
rade 8 bolts. There's maybe an inch of thread left at the tie rod ends, and l=
ess than an inch clearance to the inside of the wheel. I'm not going to race=
the car, street or otherwise. The MGB "solution" helps, and that's all I wa=
s looking for. I knew up front it wasn't a "fix."
>=20
> So... a bit easier (lighter) steering, not as much scrub. With @ 0" toe th=
e steering is quite sensitive. I used a Toe Alignment Bar; it's close to zer=
o toe. How close? I dunno; that takes an alignment rack and the local guys a=
ren't interested in aligning a car without alignment turnbuckles for less th=
an @ $350.00. That'll keep 'till I get the Kitty back to Georgia.
>=20
> Tom
> '67 Mark 2
>=20
>=20
>> On Wed, May 20, 2015 at 6:41 PM, Gary <garywinblad@comcast.net> wrote:
>> Tom,
>> Interesting... I bought some MGB arms a
>> long time ago. How did you connect them?
>> Gary
>>=20
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>=20
>>> On May 19, 2015, at 7:22 AM, Tom Parker via Tigers <tigers@autox.team.ne=
t> wrote:
>>>=20
>>> MGB steering arms with the stock Tiger rack (since Dale no longer makes t=
he Midget rack kit...) solves a lot of the wheel scrub issues when backing u=
p. The steering's lighter, too, by just a bit. DrMayf wrote (imho) the defin=
itive analysis on Ackerman v Tigers issue. The best we can hope for is a ste=
ering angle of about zero degrees with the stock crossmember.
>>>=20
>>> Tom
>>>=20
>>> '67 Mark 2
>>>=20
>>>> On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 10:21 PM, Jay Laifman via Tigers <tigers@autox.=
team.net> wrote:
>>>> Every time I back up a non-Tiger, my predispostion to not going full lo=
ck on the Tiger seems to always come through and prevents me from doing it w=
ith the non-Tiger too. I get a chuckle out of it each time - but I still ca=
n't bring myself to do it!
>>>>=20
>>>> Just thought I'd share that thought.
>>>>=20
>>>> Jay
>>>>=20
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>=20
>>>> tigers@autox.team.net
>>>>=20
>>>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
>>>> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
>>>> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/tkparker1941@=
gmail.com
>>>=20
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>=20
>>> tigers@autox.team.net
>>>=20
>>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
>>> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
>>> Unsubscribe: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/garywinblad@co=
mcast.net
>=20
> <FullSizeRender-2.jpg>
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto"><div>Thanks Tom, but I knew all that..</div=
><div>What I was wondering was what tie rod ends</div><div>or machining on t=
he steering arms did you</div><div>have to do? The Alpine arms are sl=
ightly</div><div>longer than the MGB arms and should help</div><div>even mor=
e, that was part of Doane's race</div><div>mods IIRC. I haven' t=
heard of anyone else</div><div>using the stock rack like you. Did you=
have</div><div>to "unbend" the rack arms and did you make</div><div>sure yo=
u didn't run out of rack ball joint</div><div>travel? You should be ab=
le to do your own</div><div>precision alignment using the "strings"</div><di=
v>method, I do.</div><div>Gary</div><div><br><br>Sent from my iPhone</div><d=
iv><br>On May 20, 2015, at 6:31 PM, Tom Parker <<a href=3D"mailto:tkparke=
r1941@gmail.com">tkparker1941@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockqu=
ote type=3D"cite"><div><div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Gary, and Buck,<div><br></div><di=
v>First, Buck's right, and I think I implied that. The MGB arms DO NOT fix t=
he Ackerman Angle issue in the Tiger. "The best we can hope for is a steerin=
g angle of about zero degrees with the stock crossmember." The i=
ssue is the MGA rack George fitted to the Alpine crossmember is way too far f=
orward, and it isn't possible to get close to a proper Ackerman Angle. It is=
n't, imho, a problem with the rack, it's with the mounting position. For abo=
ut $10,000 Dale can "fix" the problem by constructing a new crossmember with=
the rack in a straight line with the steering arms. Is it that simple? No, a=
nd I won't begin to try to understand the math involved. See DrMayf's articl=
e.</div><div><br></div><div>What the arms do is what we both said earlier: t=
he make the steering a bit easier, and they reduce the tire scrub a bit. Tha=
t's all. The MGB arms are about an inch longer than the stock Tiger ar=
ms. It's about as far as you can go, and it requires 15" or larger wheels.</=
div><div><br></div><div>There are a few "solutions to the problem. I know th=
e redesigned crossmember works, and I'be seen Alpine spindles reversed (swap=
ped side to side) with Alpine steering arms to the front, but I don't know h=
ow close it comes to solving anything. And I don't know if that "fix" works w=
ith the Tiger rack.</div><div><br></div><div>Now to the MGB steering arms: R=
andy Willett (<a href=3D"mailto:willett581@msn.com";>willett581@msn.com</a>) d=
id the modification. It involved elongating the center mounting hole a bit a=
nd adding a spacer to align the arm "parallel" (more or less) to the spindle=
. I torqued it down to Tiger specs, Randy argued for a bit more torque. He s=
upplied grade 8 bolts. There's maybe an inch of thread left at the tie rod e=
nds, and less than an inch clearance to the inside of the wheel. I'm not goi=
ng to race the car, street or otherwise. The MGB "solution" helps, and that'=
s all I was looking for. I knew up front it wasn't a "fix."</div><div><br></=
div><div>So... a bit easier (lighter) steering, not as much scrub. With @ 0"=
toe the steering is quite sensitive. I used a Toe Alignment Bar; it's close=
to zero toe. How close? I dunno; that takes an alignment rack and the local=
guys aren't interested in aligning a car without alignment turnbuckles for l=
ess than @ $350.00. That'll keep 'till I get the Kitty back to Georgia.</div=
><div><br></div><div>Tom</div><div>'67 Mark 2</div><div><br></div></div><div=
class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, May 20, 2015 a=
t 6:41 PM, Gary <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:garywinblad@comcast.=
net" target=3D"_blank">garywinblad@comcast.net</a>></span> wrote:<br><blo=
ckquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #cc=
c solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"auto"><div>Tom,</div><div>Interesting.=
.. I bought some MGB arms a</div><div>long time ago. How did you conne=
ct them?</div><div>Gary<br><br>Sent from my iPhone</div><div><br>On May 19, 2=
015, at 7:22 AM, Tom Parker via Tigers <<a href=3D"mailto:tigers@autox.te=
am.net" target=3D"_blank">tigers@autox.team.net</a>> wrote:<br><br></div>=
<blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div dir=3D"ltr">MGB steering arms with the s=
tock Tiger rack (since Dale no longer makes the Midget rack kit...) solves a=
lot of the wheel scrub issues when backing up. The steering's lighter, too,=
by just a bit. DrMayf wrote (imho) the definitive analysis on Ackerman v Ti=
gers issue. The best we can hope for is a steering angle of about zero=
degrees with the stock crossmember.<div><br></div><div>Tom</div><div><br></=
div><div>'67 Mark 2</div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"=
gmail_quote">On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 10:21 PM, Jay Laifman via Tigers <span d=
ir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:tigers@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank">ti=
gers@autox.team.net</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quot=
e" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><=
div dir=3D"ltr">Every time I back up a non-Tiger, my predispostion to not go=
ing full lock on the Tiger seems to always come through and prevents me from=
doing it with the non-Tiger too. I get a chuckle out of it each time -=
but I still can't bring myself to do it!<div><br></div><div>Just thought I'=
d share that thought.</div><span><font color=3D"#888888"><div><br></div><div=
>Jay</div></font></span></div>
<br>_______________________________________________<br>
<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:tigers@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank">tigers@autox.team=
.net</a><br>
<br>
/www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/archive"; target=3D"_blank">http://ww=
w.team.net/archive</a><br>
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team.net/forums</a><br>
Unsubscribe: <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tigers/tkparke=
r1941@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/tig=
ers/tkparker1941@gmail.com</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div>
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___________________________</span><br><span></span><br><span><a href=3D"mail=
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