There's a saying (which has a different meaning to everyone who reads it):
This is my great-great grandfathers axe.
My great grandfather replaced the handle when it broke.
My grandfather replaced the head when it wore out.
My father replaced the handle again.
This is my great-great grandfathers axe.
Okay, a family heirloom has a different emotional attachment than
something bought from a stranger. As long as the provenance of whatever
I'm buying from that stranger is known up front, I can make an informed
decision about what value it has to me (which goes back to the argument
about 'intent to deceive'). Sometimes I just want a cool looking
axe--that it's not original isn't important. Other times, I want the
'real deal'.
Building two Bugattis from the same car? As long as it's made clear
which bits are from which car (and assuming I have the money for such an
indulgence), I might be tempted into buying one of them just to have a
Bugatti, but I couldn't pretend to myself that it's an 'all original'
car and I wouldn't expect it to act as an investment like a 'real deal'
Bugatti would. It'd just be a nifty car to own and drive (but not at a
vintage car event, 'cause they probably wouldn't allow it).
And the debate rages on.
David (re-grinding my great-great grandfather's axe)Sosna
Jim Ellis wrote:
> So how about a Tiger that has had the front clip replaced from an Alpine...
> and then as luck would have it the same car gets rear ended and the rear
> clip gets replaced from an Alpine donor car. Then at some point the rusty
> floors get replaced along with a nice set of rust free Alpine doors....
> still a Tiger? Jim
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-tigers@autox.team.net [mailto:owner-tigers@autox.team.net]On
> Behalf Of VegasLegal@aol.com
> Sent: Monday, June 16, 2003 5:44 PM
> To: tigers@autox.team.net
> Subject: Authentication verification--how to create a tiger out of thin
> air.
>
>
> Well I appear to have way too much time on my hands, ya'll keep raising
> questions that I never thought about before, and probably should ignore now.
> Additionally, the information provided here will likely be looked upon by
> some as sacrilege.
>
> That being said, I am not for a moment subscribing to the following, or for
> that matter, alluding that it is appropriate. Rather, STOA through TAC and
> others are ready, willing and able to verify the authenticity of a vehicle
> by their standards, and wary buyers will continue to keep authenticity and
> originality as the hallmarks of our hobby.
>
> I have had my curiosity piqued re: What do you need to register a car as a
> Tiger, how to create an Alger legally badged as a Tiger, and other sundry
> thoughts from a legal perspective.
>
> Below (after my sign-off) appear two "Rebuild Applications" for getting
> titles; one from Texas and one from Georgia. I have gone to the trouble of
> answering the Georgia questions to demonstrate that little of a car is
> needed in order for the title to survive. In the case referenced, all that
> is left is the engine and transmission.
>
> The scenereo is as follows. The purchaser acquires a title to a wrecked or
> rusted out hulk historically bearing the Tiger provenence. He then buys an
> Alpine on a bill of sale (or on a title and a bill of sale). The front of
> the Tiger suspension is saved because, 1)It is necessary and 2)It allows the
> purchaser to indicate that only a part of the frame came from a donor or
> component car.
>
> The new "Tiger" is then pieced together as follows: Engine, tranny, old
> tunnel and front suspension are transplanted to the Alpine. The Vin plate is
> removed from the Tiger and placed upon the top of the firewall in on the
> Alpine.
>
> The car is then taken down to the local DMV with the Tiger title, the Alpine
> bill of sale, and the rebuild application. Following an integrity and
> safety inspection, a replacement title is issued with the Tiger Vin #.
> Voila.
>
> This procedure contrasts with merely rebadging an Alpine and putting a Tiger
> tag on it in that the imprimitur of the State law is added to the title in a
> legal fashion. For example, it appears that that obvious Alger on E-Bay may
> be legally advertised as a Tiger if something akin to the above procedure
> was followed. In the eyes of the law, IT IS A TIGER.
>
> I researched various state statutes, and while this procedure might not be
> available everywhere (e.g., VT does not title vehicles over fifteen years
> old) it appears viable.
>
> After the process, the "Tiger" is a "Tiger" in the eyes of the law of the
> titling jurisdiction, and once that title is in hand, the vehicle should be
> able to move from state to state under the full faith and credit clause of
> the constitution. I.e., Nevada could not (and in any event, would not)
> destroy Texas's Tiger designation. (They don't necessarily have to, but it
> appears that states readily accept other states' titles.
>
> Again, I am not subscribing to the procedure, and these cars should not
> approach the desirability or authenticity of "real" Tigers. But the
> protection is up to the market and the active clubs, and the law is not
> there to help.
>
> The actual lawyer red-necked ignorant desert rat in LAS vegas (see mayf's
> earlier sign-off).
>
> Bob Nersesian
> B382000975LRXFE
>
> REBUILD APPLICATIONS:
> T-129 (Rev. 1/02)
> Georgia Department of Motor Vehicle Safety
> Motor Vehicle Services
> Labor and Parts Certification
> This is to certify that I, repaired the following described vehicle or had
> the
> vehicle repaired by:
> (Name)
> (Name and Address)
> (Year Model) (Make of Vehicle) (Vehicle Identification Number)
> and that this vehicle was rebuilt in Georgia in accordance with O.C.G.A.
> 40-3-37 (b)(1). Listed below are the identification
> number(s) from which the used parts were taken (List when applicable)
> Location of parts vehicle(s):
> Were two or more major component parts* used to restore this vehicle? (x )
> Yes ( ) No
> *Major component part means any one of the following subassemblies of a
> motor vehicle: (A) Front clip assembly (Fenders,
> hood and bumper); (B) Rear clip assembly (Quarter panels and floor panel
> assembly); (C) Engine and transmission; (D) Top
> with the exception of soft tops; (E) Frame; (F) Complete side (fender, door,
> and quarter panel).
> Is the applicant a Georgia licensed rebuilder? ( ) Yes (x ) No
> If yes, please record your Statebs License Number and the year of
> issue:______________________________________________
> (Georgia License Number and Year of Issue)
> Was this vehicle damaged in shipment and disclaimed by the manufacturer? ( )
> Yes (x ) No
> Check the parts replaced in repair of this vehicle:
> Please check one
> (More if applicable)
> (x ) Front Bumper (x ) Deck Lid ( ) Windshield
> (x ) Grille (x ) Rear Body Panel (x ) Floor Pan
> (x ) Left Fender ( ) Rear Bumper ( ) P/U Cab
> (x ) Right Fender ( ) Right Rear Quarter Panel ( ) P/U Bed
> ( ) Hood (x ) Right Rear Door or Skin ( ) Left Cab Corner b P/U
> ( ) Radiator Support (x ) Right Front Door or Skin ( ) Right Cab Corner b
> P/U
> (x ) Left Inner Fender/Apron (x ) Roof Skin or Assembly ( ) Back Cab Panel
> (x ) Right Inner Fender/Apron ( ) Engine (x ) Interior (x ) Other..TRUNK
> FLOOR
> (x ) Left Front Door or Skin ( ) Transmission ( ) Wheel/Tires
> ( ) Left Rear Door or Skin ( ) Frame (x ) Dash Pad
> ( ) Left Rear Quarter Panel (x ) Frame Section ( ) Header Panel
> ( ) Air Bag & Sensors
>
> ( ) I purchased the vehicle in repaired condition from:
> (Name) (Address)
>
> Reason vehicle was rebuilt: Rusted out shell of a ghost of a survivor half
> buried in the back field of a sugar beet farmer.
> Sworn to and Subscribed before me this
> Certification by Owner
> The Day of ,
> (Month) (Year)
> To the best of my knowledge, the information contained herein is
> true and correct. I understand that this vehicle cannot be sold or
> transferred until a Certificate of Title has been issued in my name,
> in compliance with Section 40-3-37 of the O.C.G.A.
> (Signature of Notary Public)
> (Signature of Owner) (Date)
> (Date my Commission Expired)
> Important: The information on this form must be legible. Alterations or
> Erasures void this form. Please include
> photographs of vehicle in a damaged condition per GA code 40-3-37, 7-1-90.
> Any person who rebuilds or
> repairs a salvage motor vehicle shall submit an application for Certificate
> of Title and obtain an inspection of
> such vehicle Prior to the painting of such vehicle.
>
> AFFIDAVIT AND APPLICATION TO REGISTER AND TITLE A VEHICLE WHICH
> HAS BEEN REBUILT, ASSEMBLED, RECONSTRUCTED, STRIPPED OR HAS
> HAD A CHANGE IN COMPONENT PARTS
> (TYPE OR PRINT INFORMATION)
> YEAR
> MODEL
> MAKE
> BODY STYLE
> VEHICLE IDENTIFICATION NUMBER
> DOCUMENT/TITLE # (IF SALVAGE CERTIFICATE ATTACHED)
> Explanation by applicant as to what was done in relation to the assembling,
> rebuilding, altering, etc., of the vehicle for which title is sought:
> An authorized inspection station must inspect vehicle after vehicle has been
> rebuilt.
> (REBUILT) VEHICLE INSPECTION STICKER NUMBER EXPIRATION DATE
> IF THE VEHICLE HAS BEEN REBUILT OR ASSEMBLED FROM COMPONENT PARTS, COMPLETE
> THE FOLLOWING INFORMATION.
> COMPONENT PART ORIGIN OF COMPONENT PARTS/PURCHASED FROM:
> Attach evidence of ownership
> (bill of sale and/or title)
> NAME ADDRESS CITY, STATE, ZIP
> (REQUIRED)
> COMPONENT PART NUMBER
> ENGINE
> FRAME
> BODY
> *SPECIFY LOCATION OF COMPONENT PARTS REPLACED: RIGHT (RT) LEFT (L) FRONT (F)
> REAR (R) RIGHT FRONT (RT F) LEFT FRONT (L F) RIGHT REAR (R R) LEFT REAR (L
> R)
> COMPONENT PART ORIGIN OF COMPONENT PARTS/PURCHASED FROM:
> Submit any bills of sale for
> component parts (if available)
> NAME ADDRESS CITY, STATE, ZIP
> (IF AVAILABLE)
> COMPONENT PART NUMBER
> TRANSMISSION
> FRONT FENDER(S) H
> HOOD
> DOOR(S) H
> BUMPER(S) H
> DECK LID
> QUARTER PANEL(S) H
> TAILGATE/HATCHBACK
> PICKUP CARGO BOX
> TRUCK CAB
> Before me, the undersigned authority, personally appeared the affiant whose
> name is subscribed hereto, and being duly sworn, deposes and upon oath
> states that he is the legal and rightful owner of the
> vehicle described above and that he purchased or came into possession of all
> the component parts in a legal and lawful manner and in accordance with
> provisions of Transportation Code B'501.092.
> OWNERbS NAME
> MAILING ADDRESS Subscribed and sworn to before me this day of , year
> CITY, STATE, ZIP
> NOTARY SEAL
> OWNERbS SIGNATURE
> COUNTY, TEXAS NOTARY PUBLIC SIGNATURE
> WARNING! TRANSPORTATION CODE B'501.155 PROVIDES THAT FALSIFYING INFORMATION
> ON ANY REQUIRED DOCUMENT IS A THIRD-DEGREE FELONY.
> Texas
> of Transportation
> Department
> Form VTR-61 (Rev. 3/2000)
> DHT # 142251
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