Larry:
Yes, I've been salivating over all these stroker motor articles I've
been seeing lately. Now all I need is $$$$.
Regards
David
Larry Paulick wrote:
>
> Dave, not hearing from Bob P, I tend to think you have a story that is
>probably
> true. Now a 289 ci would produce the 349 hp, if it was worked over, and with
>a
> high compression.
>
> Nothing like cubes, and that is why the stroker engine, after the 5.0L is so
> attractive. Of course more $$$$$, vs a 5.0L which is cheaper than a decent
>engine
> rebuild.
>
> Ah, the never ending quest for more hp.
>
> Larry
>
> sosnaenergyconsulting@cox.net wrote:
>
> > Hi all:
> > I once corresponded with a man who had spent some time with Doane and
> > who asked Doane a similar question about the 260 engine.
> >
> > Doane asked him "can you tell the difference between a 260 and a 289
> > engine just by looking at it in the car?"
> >
> > "No," replied the man.
> >
> > "Neither could the Tech inspectors" said Doane.
> >
> > A third-hand story at best, but I like to think there's some truth
> > there.
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > David Sosna
> >
> > Larry Paulick wrote:
> > >
> > > Bob, interesting account of the racing history of the Tiger, and the
>players
> > > participation.
> > >
> > > How did Doane Spencer achieve 349 hp from that 260 ci. Do I remember
>that he
> > > had a very high compression engine, with selves? Also, was this a
>estimate or
> > > was it dyno tuned.
> > >
> > > Larry
> > >
> > > Bob Palmer wrote:
> > >
> > > > Steve, Ray,
> > > >
> > > > For those interested in this part of the Tiger's history, here's a brief
> > > > (well, maybe not so brief) summary of Friedman's book, Chapter 2, "The
> > > > Sunbeam Tiger". Friedman was the official Shelby American photographer
>from
> > > > 1962 to 1967. He was also our banquet speaker at the 1998 Tigers United
>in
> > > > Big Bear (my plaque says TU XIII, but it was really TU XXIII). During
>Dave's
> > > > talk he raised more than a few eyebrows with his adamant assertion that
> > > > Shelby American was only involved with one Tiger, the #45 race car, and
>not
> > > > any "prototype".
> > > >
> > > > In Chapter 2 Friedman writes: "Garrad wanted Shelby to build two
>prototypes,
> > > > one for the street and one for the track, but the time frame was too
>narrow
> > > > for Shelby to handle the construction of both cars. Although Ken Miles
> > > > worked for Shelby American at the time, he had a small workshop of his
>own
> > > > where he did some outside work. Miles was given the task of building the
> > > > first Sunbeam Tiger street car and Shelby built the first race car.
>After
> > > > much modification, the first race car made its debut at the SCCA
>divisional
> > > > race run at Tucson in early April 1964. The driver was the very capable
>Lew
> > > > Spencer, who had years of experience racing production sports cars. His
> > > > performance at Tucson proved that the Tiger had possibilities but that
>a lot
> > > > of work was needed to make the car a winner. The biggest problem with
>the
> > > > Tiger was that it tended to swap ends without warning at the most
> > > > inopportune times. This, of course, did little for the driver's
>confidence
> > > > in the car. The problem - never cured by the Shelby crew - was likely
>caused
> > > > by too much horsepower installed in a too-short chassis."
> > > >
> > > > Mike Taylor in his book writes: "In March 1963 a Mk II Alpine was
>delivered
> > > > to the Miles workshop and work began." At the same time, Ian Garrad had
> > > > independently commissioned Shelby American to build a prototype for
>$10,000,
> > > > which he said would be ready in "about eight weeks' time". It was the
>eight
> > > > week schedule that prompted Ian to have Ken build a second prototype.
> > > > Apparently, during these same eight weeks, Mr. Friedman was out of the
> > > > Shelby American shop. Also, it's a long time from May 1963 to April
>1964,
> > > > which coincides with both the Tucson SCCA race and the start of
>production
> > > > of the Jensen Tigers. Thus, Friedman must be presumed wrong on this
>point
> > > > and the #45 race car was really the second Tiger developed by Shelby
> > > > American. According to Mike Taylor, "In March, 1964, the prototype
>vehicle
> > > > AF3 was flown over from Coventry to Shelby's workshop in California
>where a
> > > > tuned 260 cu in (4.2 litre) engine was installed." And, "Later, in the
> > > > Pacific Coast Divisional Championships at Willow Springs, Lew Spencer
>made
> > > > history by being the first man to win a race in a Sunbeam Tiger,
>finishing
> > > > 12 seconds in front of his nearest rival who was driving an E-type
>Jaguar.
> > > > In September of the same year, Lew drove the Tiger in the 200 mile
>National
> > > > Sports Car Race at Elkhart Lake, where he finished second overall and
>first
> > > > in class. Lew Spencer recalls, 'Apart from the cooling problems, the
>Tiger
> > > > was always a little frightening to drive on a race track because of its
> > > > short wheelbase.'" (Hey, Lew! Driven any Porches lately?)
> > > >
> > > > According to Friedman, at the SCCA B Production race at Laguna Seca in
>May
> > > > 1964, Lew Spencer lost control of #45 on the high speed approach to
>turn 2
> > > > and came to rest on the dirt hill below the spectator area. Friedman
>says
> > > > this was just one in a series of off-track shunts that convinced Lew to
>give
> > > > up on the Tiger. The #45 car was later sold to Sports Car Forum's Don
> > > > Sesslar in Ohio and rebodied as #74. It is interesting that the picture
>of
> > > > Lew and the shunted #45 car shows no serious damage to the right front
> > > > wheel and sheet metal, whereas the picture in Norm's book shows
>extensive
> > > > damage in this area, so this obviously wasn't the last race for #45. If
>Lew
> > > > last raced #45 at Elkhart in September 1964, that doesn't leave much
>time
> > > > for the wreck that Norm's picture documents (at Kent, Washington race?)
>or
> > > > the sale and rebodied by SCF and its first race, according to Friedman,
>in
> > > > September. Again, it appears that Friedman must have his facts wrong.
> > > >
> > > > Friedman says that Ken Miles first drove the #74 nee #45 Tiger at the
>Badger
> > > > 300 at Road America in September of 1964, where he won the B Production
> > > > class and finished second overall to Dan Gerber's Cobra (not bad for
>"too
> > > > much horsepower installed in a too-short chassis").
> > > >
> > > > In any case, after the generally disappointing showing for the 1964
>season,
> > > > Ian decided to turn the Tiger race effort over to Doane Spencer at
>Hollywood
> > > > Sports Cars and the rest, as they say, is history. BTW, Doane's 260
>with a
> > > > two-barrel carburetor put out 349 bhp!
> > > >
> > > > Bob
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