In a message dated 98-10-21 03:12:41 EDT, rootes@ix.netcom.com writes:
<< Ramon:You're too much. If you take discussion of brakes not working too
well as a personal insult, you're beyond help.>>
Steve,
You really should consider taking the time to "adjust yourself" whenever your
panties get all bunched up like that. All I said was that your claim that the
stock brakes were unsafe was a crock--which it is--and that perhaps your
driving may have been a factor in your accident, which it may have been.
In any event, yes I probably am too much. And yes, I am beyond help. But
I do not take discussion of brakes not working too well as a personal
insult.
I do feel personally compelled to respond when someone makes a
statement that is not true, as you did.
A lot of people on this list have not had the pleasure of owning their
cars since they were new or near new. A lot of people on this list bought
their cars very, very used, and in a lot of different stages of
mechanical "enhancement," as multiple generations of prior owners would
have them believe. When a long-time owner jumps on the list and says
that the basic configuration of the brake system is not safe, and
suggests that something needs to be done about it, those people may
tend to believe it, and go off doing things that need not be
done--things that might in fact create a real unsafe condition.
Our experience with the Carbon-Kevlar pads and shoes a couple of years
ago is a good example. We had been running the dot-five Silicon fluid
for a number of years, and whenever we encountered an especially fast
course, or do a high-speed time-trial type event, we would boil the
stuff and have to bleed the system. When I rebuilt all the hydraulics
so we could go back to dot-four fluid, I also bought new rotors and
got a set of the Carbon-Kevlar pads from Dale. The result was, as
Dale would say, "BITCHIN'!" We noticed such a dramatic improvement
with the pads, that we decided to go with the Carbon-Kevlar shoes as
well. The result was just as Dan Walters predicted--immediate lock-up
of the rears under light-to moderate braking. In this configuration,
the car would have been a safety hazard both on the street and on the
track.
So, you come along and tell people that the basic configuration of the
stock brakes is not safe, and people go off talking about
Carbon-Kevlar pads and shoes, dual master cylinders, proportioning
valves, rear disks, and all sorts of solutions to race applications.
Solutions to problems that do not exist on a street car. Solutions
that may themselves induce real safety problems.
I'm sorry if you don't like it Steve, but when you or anybody else
says something like that, I am going to respond accordingly.
Especially if it involves something that could hurt people. We're not
talking about blocked-off horn holes, longer connecting rods, or
original rivets here Steve. We're talking about the braking system.
<<It's typical of you to take offence, and offer an insult in my direction,
and toward many others through the months, in an open discussion of a
mechanical problem.>>
I did not take offence. And I did not intend to insult you, or any
others. I intended to suggest that whatever caused you to crunch your
Tiger was NOT the result of a deficiency in the standard configuration
of the car's brake system. It could be that you had something wrong
with your brakes that need tending to. It could also be that you did
not properly interpret and adjust to things like perhaps brake fade,
or a hard or spongy pedal feel. It could have been a lot of things.
But to crunch your car and then blame it on the design of the brake
system is just not right.
<<Any of your personal problems aside, there must be a reason so many people
have worked on improving Sunbeam braking through the years, adapted 4 wheel
discs, tried different pads and modifications. I don't think it's because the
brakes
are exceptionally good.>>
Oh. I see. Now we're going to jerk around with the brakes because
they are not "exceptionally good." I can buy that. They are not
exceptionally good. Especially in competitive driving situations--the
situations for which such improvements were intended. But to jerk
around with the brakes because "the standard setup does nowhere near
the job safety requires" remains, from my viewpoint, a crock.
And if that is a personal problem, then it is one I am proud to
have, and I highly recommend it to others.
Ramon
P.S. For those who may be considering such things, the addition of a
proportioning valve in the rear circuit did solve the rear lock-up
problem on the autocross Tiger. It also, however, gave a bit of a
"springy" feel to the pedal that neither Theresia nor I ever liked or
adjusted to. We ran the car like that for maybe six months, and when
one of the screws on one of the brake adjusters broke and damaged a
shoe, we went back to the stock shoes. For us, whatever benefit we
may have gotten from the shoes was negated by our inability to adjust
our driving to properly use them with the proportioning valve. I plan
to use them on the Pointy-fin Alpine next year, though, as we will be running
dual Tilton master cylinders with an adjustable bias bar instead of a
proportioning valve. And none of this, by the way, is needed for a
street car, for which the properly maintained "standard setup" brake
system is quite safe.
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