I agree whole heartedly... there is little chance of even hitting 200HP
and expecting the engine to last more than 100 or so hours at full output.
Sure turbos and etc with 25psi+ boosts might get you up there...
but as Joe said... looking like Spit motor.... not a chance :-)
Paul Tegler ptegler@gouldfo.com www.teglerizer.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe Curry" <spitlist@gte.net>
To: "Ptegler" <ptegler@gouldfo.com>
Cc: "Terry Thompson" <epharisto@yahoo.com>; <spitfires@autox.team.net>
Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2000 10:50 AM
Subject: Re: Engine Rebuild
Point well taken! However, these engines were not upgrades of existing engines
but rather purposely designed with that sort of output
in mind. If you have nothing to start with, you can do much more than trying
to start with a lump of metal and then try to squeeze
that much power form it. I for one doubt that any SPitfire engine would be
able to make more than say 200 or so hp and still even
remotely resemble what it looked like originally!
Joe
Ptegler wrote:
>
> ...take a look at F1 engine spec... 1.5 liter in the 1,000HP range
> is not uncommon!
> $$$ Big $$$ :-)
>
> Paul Tegler ptegler@gouldfo.com www.teglerizer.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Terry Thompson" <epharisto@yahoo.com>
> To: <spitfires@autox.team.net>
> Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2000 9:43 AM
> Subject: Re: Engine Rebuild
>
> I don't know about 10,000 hp out of a single over head
> cam four cylinder with about 100 cubic inches of
> displacement, but I'd have to agree with every other
> comment Nolan made.
>
> There's so many options and combinations of parts now
> for spitfire blocks, it's difficult to say what is the
> best set-up. I've been beating my head against a wall
> trying to decide.
>
> Most people choose to work with what they have and
> what is proven by using the Triumph Competition Prep
> Manuals. You'd use existing blocks, heads and cranks
> that are machined for balance, weight reduction and
> flow. And upgrade to over-sized pistons (TR6), sport
> cam, and higher flow carbs.
>
> But if you want to spend some deneiro, there are
> forged and aluminum pistons ($500), chrome-moly
> connecting rods ($700), billet cranks ($3k), titanium
> valves ($400), quad carb setups ($1k) or electronic
> ignition systems ($2k), superchargers ($2k) and
> six-hundred dollar roller-rockers that will work on a
> spitfire engine. And you can spend some good money on
> ceramic coatings (especially if you start coating
> everything including timing chains and roller rockers
> etc.)
>
> First: try and set a limit to what you are willing to
> spend. Then look at all of the options that are out
> there, and decide which ones will fit within your
> budget. (make sure you figure in some buffer for
> incidentals like hardware gaskets etc.)
>
> Then take the list of items that you think will work,
> and ask someone like Mike Lewis of Protius or Ted
> Schumacher of TSI if it's a good plan to put those
> pieces together. Some things are sort of common
> sense...like buying a $2000 super charger and using it
> on a ZS carb and stock cam...probably not the best use
> of your $2000.
>
> You can easily surpass $10,000.00 on parts and
> services alone if you add it all up.
>
> In the least you should have the block and head
> hot-tanked and magnafluxed. And consider shotpeening
> on cylinder walls. Machining the engine as described
> in the competition prep manual is not the cheapest
> thing but does improve upon an already proven engine
> design.
>
> Companies like PAECO will sell you a stage 1,2,3,4
> engine but the stage 1's (pretty stock except for a
> hotter road cam and head porting as well as balancing)
> start around $3,000. The stage 2s are around $5,000
> and the 3's and 4's they don't list because it depends
> on what performance components you choose. The above
> prices also required your old engine as a trade in.
>
> Now for other problems. Let's say you've gone ahead
> and spent $10,000 on your engine and it's built
> producing close to 200 horses. I'd like to start a $1
> pool and see who can guess how long it will take
> before you tear the differential or transmission out
> of your car when you excellerate too fast.
>
> The triumph components are well made, but even the
> works spitfires with their estimated 100 hp, had
> modified TR4 tranny components for more beefiness. In
> the least, such an engine will probably go through
> U-joints at an alarming rate and torsion on other
> components like your drive-shaft and half axles will
> take it's toll. Not to mention that such an engine
> requires lots of care and upkeep beyond that of a
> stock TR. Constant adjustments to roller rockers and
> valves are gaurenteed.
>
> I'm not trying to discourage you. Just that there's a
> whole lot to think about, and no one out there has yet
> been able to say "this is the best combination". I'm
> still (after 4 months) mulling over my twenty thousand
> dollar list of options to decide which items I'm
> willing to take a chance on and which I'm going to
> red-line to bring the whole concept into budget.
>
> I'm actually shooting for a HP range but it's
> difficult to tell what sort of affect/effect (?) these
> parts will have to boost hp. If it's marginal (Eh,
> you'll get another 5 horses out of that $3,000.00
> part) then off list it goes. Especially since everyone
> you talk to has a different opinion about what is good
> hp value for the dollar.
>
> But then the greatest fear is spending several
> thousands of dollars on engine components, then
> getting it bench dyno-tested and instead of your 57
> bhp, you get a 59 hp. Or what is probably even worse
> and more likely, you over-shoot your optimal HP goal
> and your having to crawl everywhere so you don't tear
> out your drive-train. Then there's always the
> possibility that someone didn't torque something right
> and you throw a $250 forged piston head through your
> $2000 ported, polished, titanium valved, ceramic
> coated head (and your recently painted bonnet to
> boot).
>
> -Terry
> "Oh...Those are speed holes. They make the car go
> faster" - Homer Simpson
>
> --- Nolan Penney <npenney@erols.com> wrote:
> >
> > There's an old saying "speed costs money, how fast
> > can you afford to
> > go?" It's as valid today, with you, as it was then.
> > If you've got the
> > money, you can get 10,000 horsepower out of that
> > engine. Gonna cost you
> > upwards of half to a full million dollars, but it
> > can be done. I say
> > that to point out the folly of your question. You
> > need to put some
> > parameters in it. What kind of money do you want to
> > spend? What kind
> > of performance do you want? What about life
> > expectency? These things
> > all sway the modifications. After all, nitros and
> > 40psi of boost are
> > great power increasers, but life expectency is
> > rather short.
> >
> > As far as every trick in the book, pick up every
> > engine book ever
> > written, and study them. Then, you will no most of
> > the tricks in the
> > book for squeezing power out of your engine. And as
> > soon as you've done
> > that, know you're out of date immediately, because
> > in the time it took
> > you to read these words, at least 60 new tricks have
> > been discovered or
> > improved on.
> >
> > As an immediate suggestion, dump the dual exhaust,
> > that's costing you
> > power. Then do some serious tuning (how did you
> > select the needles?
> > what is your advance curve? etc)
>
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