Thank you Wayne!
Noone I've talked to before (not the list as of yet) ever believed
me about the effects of the rear on steering.
As you mentioned the radius arms... are called that...FOR A REASON!
To extend the statement abit that .... Wayne made...
not only does the wheelbase change in a turn (wheel to wheel per side)
but the outside wheel on the turn...toes out slightly, while the inside wheel
will toe in. As Wayne stated.. becoming an active part of the steering.
this toe change is also affected by rise hieght and body roll.
Hence the sensitivity to the sway bar and body roll stiffness.
This is also one of the reason a sway bar on the back end of a Spit...
if setup correctly.... is not a good idea.
Paul Tegler
1973 BGT - Daily Driver
Rat - 1980 Spitfire w/ O/D - in re-hab
Punkin' - 1978 Spitfire - in Superb Shape!
email: wizardz@toad.net http://www.teglerizer.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Wayne Burton <Wayne_burton@bc.sympatico.ca>
To: spitfires@autox.team.net <spitfires@autox.team.net>
Date: Friday, September 17, 1999 3:54 PM
Subject: Spring sag on Spitfire (long)
Hello All,
I've been driving and maintaining spitfires since 1978. Currently on my 8th
one, and I love them :)
I've had all the variations of the rear suspension fixed, swing, rotoflex
etc. and in every case I still remember the BL service tech's explanation.
The toe-in of the rear suspension is responsible for keeping the car at a
correct ride height and removing some of the load from the spring. It must
be adjusted with the 'normal' weight of the passengers in the car. AND you
must roll the car back and forward without aid of the engine to settle the
suspension before starting.
The transverse leaf spring is the upper link of the suspension. The lower
link is in two parts... The axle (or lower wishbone in the GT6 rotoflex) and
the rear RADIUS ARM are the lower link.
The fixed spring will still allow a bit of flex across the spring due to the
mounting system and the properties of metal. The swing spring will allow
more flex across the spring. Therefore, unless there is a definite sag (over
1" in ride height) there is likely not a lot wrong with the spring.
The radius arm is the member which actually locates the rear wheel within
the wheel arch, and if you look carefully, at the correct ride height, the
radius arm is not parallel to the chassis of the car or the road. It is
angled down.
This is what gives the rear suspension in the spitfire an active part in the
handling of the car. As the spring compresses on the outside of a corner,
the wheelbase on the inside gets slightly shorter. The outside wheel gets
slightly longer. This allows the rear to become part of the steering system
of the car. When driving in a straight line, bumps will be effective on both
wheels due to the spring, and the lengthening and shortening of the
wheelbase has no effect. The slight toe in will assist the spring and shocks
in bringing the rear ride height to the 'normal' setting.
If the rear toe is not adjusted properly or evenly, or the busings in the
rear suspension are worn, the handling and 'settling' are affected. In
addition the tendency to 'sag' one side is enhanced. By having the rear toe
adjusted and 'squared' the car will ride and sit evenly when driven and/or
rolled in a straight ahead condition.
If, however, you normally pull into a curb (parking, etc) you will notice
that the inside of the corner is usually lower than the outside. Doing the
opposite will reverse the effect. And if the bushings in the radius arms,
spring eyes, etc are worn, the effect is worse. This is because the
suspension doesn't have enough rolling time to settle correctly.
Additionally, if you back up (reverse), the ride height will actually
increase slightly.
My current spitfire is a 1963 Mk I (original 1 owner) with the original
spring. (Yes, I know the prior owner!!) It exhibited serious symptoms when I
got the car. After replacing all of the suspension bushings (and many other
things, not related to this) the car drives and sits squarely on its tyres.
It handles exceptionally well up to the point of 'squealing tire hop'
(another story), and comes to a rest in my driveway (20' long) straight and
true. However, If I turn while coming to rest, the inside of the turn is
always slightly lower than the outside.
A note of caution, however. I would suggest that you have this done at an
alignment shop that works on VW bugs, because most of the other shops don't
have a clue what '4 wheel alignment' is all about, nor will they attempt to
correct the tracking of the rear wheels, which is what I believe most of you
are experiencing.
Since I found out about this, it is one of the first things that I have done
on any of my Spitfires, and I have never had a serious sag problem. Nor have
I replaced any springs, except the one I broke when I hit a curb sliding
sideways at speed...
Good luck to you all, and I hope that this will 'settle' the spring for some
of you at least...
Wayne Burton
1963 Triumph Spitfire4
1966 Triumph 2000
1954 Austin A40 Somerset
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