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Hi Jeff:
=20
We do commissioning and validation. Lately it is mostly for =
FDA-regulated facilities [pharmaceutical, biotech, medical device, etc.] =
=E2=80=93 but also financial services and others. And, Yup =E2=80=93 a =
boy CAN dream!! =F0=9F=98=8A
=20
It turns out that I am the =E2=80=98jinx=E2=80=99 when it comes to power =
failures:=20
* Supplier in Las Vegas had a battery backup system. It turns out when =
the power failed they had never serviced the batteries=E2=80=A6
* Client in Memphis had the wind storm and the transfer switch failed, =
no power to the building
* Client in Minnesota lost electricity after a ~18 inch snow storm. Four =
(4) buildings on the campus each had individual natural-gas fired =
generators. One was less than 6 months old and HAD been tested as part =
of standing up the building. When I drove up in my Land Cruiser, the =
whole campus was dark! Although I had not personally been involved with =
validation of the building or generator, I was able to diagnose the =
campus-wide lack of power to a validation issue in about three minutes. =
I had then up and running within 10 minutes and headed back to my hotel, =
as the offices were closed.
=20
----------------
All the best,
=20
Al Fuller
=20
From: Shop-talk <shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net> On Behalf Of Jeff =
Scarbrough via Shop-talk
Sent: Friday, April 24, 2020 11:21 AM
To: Shop-talk@autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] diesel fuel question
=20
Al,
=20
You are correct - it is the engines that get exercised, not the =
generator, and that's an important distinction. Do you do validation or =
commissioning, or both? =20
=20
Our generators have been reliable so far in real emergencies, but live =
load testing with our current facility involves some challenges that =
have consequences we don't care to risk if we can help it. =20
Our new facility, currently under construction (coming online at the end =
of this year, pandemic notwithstanding), has two 2MW generators (3800 =
gallons each) with load bank for testing. So we will exercise the =
generator along with the diesel engine. We will probably include live =
load testing of the entire system including transfer switch, tie breaker =
for redundant power systems, and redundant power supply for one =
building, at least semi-annually. As this place won't be a patchwork of =
50 years of continuous improvement with all that implies, I'm planning =
on the whole thing being seamless and trouble-free.
A boy can dream, right?
=20
On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 10:31 AM Al Fuller via Shop-talk =
Jeff [and all]:
=20
As regards the comment you made below that the generators get exercised =
30 minutes a week: Please keep in mind that its sounds like you meant to =
say the diesel engines get exercised [as opposed to the generators].=20
=20
The difference is the generator set also includes the transfer switch, =
wiring and other components. I had one client that fired up the diesel =
weekly, but when a wind storm blew down the power lines, the facility =
was down for a week while they tried to locate a new transfer switch. It =
turned out the building housed a lot more people and equipment than when =
the generator set was first specified and the switch set =
couldn=E2=80=99t support the load. It was very frustrating to have a =
working diesel generator, but unable to power the building!
=20
As a validation person, our motto is if it needs to work, it needs to be =
tested ahead of time =E2=80=93 in the same way you would use it.
=20
----------------
All the best,
=20
Al Fuller
=20
From: Shop-talk <shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net =
via Shop-talk
Sent: Friday, April 24, 2020 9:15 AM
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] diesel fuel question
=20
=20
We have two 500kW generators at work. Each has a 1400 gallon tank; we =
go through about 500-800 gallons per year. I expect that, despite the =
fact that these generators are having their 21st birthday this year, =
there is still some portion of fuel in the tank that is 21 years old. =
This bothers me a little bit, but it keeps working. We did throw a jug =
of biocide in one year with the fresh fuel.
=20
Having said that, we have a service guy come in twice a year to check =
fluids and change filters, and they get exercised 30 minutes a week just =
to make sure they will run when we need them. =20
=20
Do like the others have said: check filters, check a fuel sample from =
the tank, and let us know what you find.
=20
There exist people who do fuel polishing - they come to your large ship =
or tank farm and run an extra fuel cleaning and refreshing for your =
stored diesel fuel. Might be a bit of overkill on the farm.
=20
Jeff Scarbrough
Corrosion Acres, Ga.
=20
On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 7:46 AM eric--- via Shop-talk =
Does anyone know of a way to tell if diesel fuel has gone bad?=20
Here is my situation. I have a large diesel fuel tank for my tractors =
on my property (so I don't have to buy 'over the road' diesel.) The =
fuel in there has been there a few years.=20
My newest tractor (a small 25hp subcompact) started acting funny. At =
full throttle, it seems to sputter a little.=20
Could be a fuel problem, but I would love to test the diesel somehow. Or =
is there a way of looking at the filter on the tractor? Or another test =
to do?=20
Related follow up, if the fuel is bad, and I have about 50 gals in a 250 =
tank. Can I just add fresh fuel to it, or do I need to drain out all =
the bad first? What would be a good bad/good ratio to dilute the bad =
fuel?=20
Thanks!=20
"Be as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a =
rational being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your =
territory." Ralph Waldo Emerson=20
-Who is John Galt?_______________________________________________
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk =
http://autox.team.net/archive
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/fishplate@gmail.com
_______________________________________________
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/shop-talk =
http://autox.team.net/archive
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/shop-talk/fishplate@gmail.com
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vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal>Hi =
Jeff:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>We do commissioning and validation. Lately it is =
mostly for FDA-regulated facilities [pharmaceutical, biotech, medical =
device, etc.] =E2=80=93 but also financial services and others. =
=C2=A0And, Yup =E2=80=93 a boy CAN dream!! <span =
style=3D'font-family:"Segoe UI =
Emoji",sans-serif'>😊</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>It turns out =
that I am the =E2=80=98jinx=E2=80=99 when it comes to power failures: =
<o:p></o:p></p><ul style=3D'margin-top:0in' type=3Ddisc><li =
class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level1 =
lfo1'>Supplier in Las Vegas had a battery backup system. It turns out =
when the power failed they had never serviced the =
batteries=E2=80=A6<o:p></o:p></li><li class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'>Client in Memphis had =
the wind storm and the transfer switch failed, no power to the =
building<o:p></o:p></li><li class=3DMsoListParagraph =
style=3D'margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1'>Client in Minnesota =
lost electricity after a ~18 inch snow storm. Four (4) buildings on the =
campus each had individual natural-gas fired generators. One was less =
than 6 months old and HAD been tested as part of standing up the =
building. When I drove up in my Land Cruiser, the whole campus was dark! =
Although I had not personally been involved with validation of the =
building or generator, I was able to diagnose the campus-wide lack of =
power to a validation issue in about three minutes. I had then up and =
running within 10 minutes and headed back to my hotel, as the offices =
were closed.<o:p></o:p></li></ul><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>----------------<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>All the best,<o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Al =
Fuller<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b>From:</b> Shop-talk =
<shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Jeff =
Scarbrough via Shop-talk<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, April 24, 2020 11:21 =
AM<br><b>To:</b> Shop-talk@autox.team.net<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: =
[Shop-talk] diesel fuel question<o:p></o:p></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Al,<o:p></o:p></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>You are correct - it is the engines that get =
exercised, not the generator, and that's an =
important distinction. Do you do validation or commissioning, =
or both? <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Our generators have been reliable so far in =
real emergencies, but live load testing with our current facility =
involves some challenges that have consequences we don't care to risk if =
we can help it. <br><br>Our new facility, =
currently under construction (coming online at the end of this =
year, pandemic notwithstanding), has two 2MW generators (3800 =
gallons each) with load bank for testing. So we will exercise the =
generator along with the diesel engine. We will probably include =
live load testing of the entire system including transfer switch, tie =
breaker for redundant power systems, and redundant power supply for one =
building, at least semi-annually. As this place won't be a =
patchwork of 50 years of continuous improvement with all that =
implies, I'm planning on the whole thing being seamless and =
trouble-free.<br><br>A boy can dream, =
right?<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>On =
Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 10:31 AM Al Fuller via Shop-talk <<a =
href=3D"mailto:shop-talk@autox.team.net";>shop-talk@autox.team.net</a>>=
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Jeff [and =
all]:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>As regards =
the comment you made below that the generators get exercised 30 minutes =
a week: Please keep in mind that its sounds like you meant to say the =
diesel engines get exercised [as opposed to the generators]. =
<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>The =
difference is the generator set also includes the transfer switch, =
wiring and other components. I had one client that fired up the diesel =
weekly, but when a wind storm blew down the power lines, the facility =
was down for a week while they tried to locate a new transfer switch. It =
turned out the building housed a lot more people and equipment than when =
the generator set was first specified and the switch set =
couldn=E2=80=99t support the load. It was very frustrating to have =
a working diesel generator, but unable to power the =
building!<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>As a =
validation person, our motto is if it needs to work, it needs to be =
tested ahead of time =E2=80=93 in the same way you would use =
it.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>------------=
----<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>All the =
best,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p><=
/o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Al =
Fuller<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p><=
/o:p></p><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 =
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b>From:</b>=
Shop-talk <<a href=3D"mailto:shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net"; =
target=3D"_blank">shop-talk-bounces@autox.team.net</a>> <b>On Behalf =
Of </b>Jeff Scarbrough via Shop-talk<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, April 24, =
2020 9:15 AM<br><b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:Shop-talk@autox.team.net"; =
target=3D"_blank">Shop-talk@autox.team.net</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: =
[Shop-talk] diesel fuel question<o:p></o:p></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p><=
/o:p></p><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p><=
/o:p></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>We have two =
500kW generators at work. Each has a 1400 gallon tank; we go =
through about 500-800 gallons per year. I expect that, despite the =
fact that these generators are having their 21st birthday =
this year, there is still some portion of fuel in the tank that is =
21 years old. This bothers me a little bit, but it keeps =
working. We did throw a jug of biocide in one year with the fresh =
fuel.<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p><=
/o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Having said =
that, we have a service guy come in twice a year to check fluids and =
change filters, and they get exercised 30 minutes a week just to make =
sure they will run when we need =
them. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p><=
/o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Do like the =
others have said: check filters, check a fuel sample from the =
tank, and let us know what you find.<o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p><=
/o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>There exist =
people who do fuel polishing - they come to your large ship or tank farm =
and run an extra fuel cleaning and refreshing for your stored diesel =
fuel. Might be a bit of overkill on the =
farm.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p><=
/o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Jeff =
Scarbrough<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Corrosion =
Acres, Ga.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p><=
/o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>On Fri, Apr =
24, 2020 at 7:46 AM eric--- via Shop-talk <<a =
href=3D"mailto:shop-talk@autox.team.net"; =
target=3D"_blank">shop-talk@autox.team.net</a>> =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5=
.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Does anyone =
know of a way to tell if diesel fuel has gone bad?</span> <br><br><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Here is my =
situation. I have a large diesel fuel tank for my tractors on my =
property (so I don't have to buy 'over the road' diesel.) The fuel =
in there has been there a few years.</span> <br><br><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>My newest =
tractor (a small 25hp subcompact) started acting funny. At full =
throttle, it seems to sputter a little.</span> <br><br><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Could be a =
fuel problem, but I would love to test the diesel somehow. Or is there a =
way of looking at the filter on the tractor? Or another test to =
do?</span> <br><br><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Related follow =
up, if the fuel is bad, and I have about 50 gals in a 250 tank. =
Can I just add fresh fuel to it, or do I need to drain out all the bad =
first? What would be a good bad/good ratio to dilute the bad =
fuel?</span> <br><br><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>Thanks!</span> =
<br><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'><br><br>"B=
e as beneficent as the sun or the sea, but if your rights as a rational =
being are trenched on, die on the first inch of your territory." =
Ralph Waldo Emerson <br>-Who is John =
Galt?</span>_______________________________________________<br><br><a =
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