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Re: [Shop-talk] Strange electrical house issues

To: Jim and Kathy <Jandkstone99@msn.com>
Subject: Re: [Shop-talk] Strange electrical house issues
From: Brian Kemp <bk13@earthlink.net>
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2013 13:52:50 -0700
Cc: shop-talk <shop-talk@autox.team.net>
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Jim - It sounds like a circuit diagram is necessary to find out what 
wire is doing what.

Some ideas to help (remembering that electricity is dangerous and you 
need to use appropriate caution):

- Make a diagram of the outlet including each connection so you can 
always put it back together the old way

- Turn off the circuit and disconnect each wire.  Verify each wire has 
no power.  A non-contact voltage tester is helpful.  Put a wire nut on 
each bare end for safety.

- Turn the power back on and see which wire is the hot supply.  If that 
is the two wire cable, you found your neutral, which should be the other 
wire in the pair.  If it is the three wire cable (black or red), that 
white wire is probably your neutral and the other wire (red or black) 
may be a second hot wire on another circuit.

- You already figured out some of the outlets after this on in the 
circuit.  I'd go to the next closest outlet and make the same diagram in 
that outlet.  Hopefully, it will make more sense with a single pair in 
and out.  With the power off and verified with a voltage tester, put a 
continuity checker on the wire pair in one outlet box and touch the 
wires in the second box to verify you have the wire pair identified. 
This process should help further figure out the wiring in the home.

Other things that may help:

- disconnected wires, such as when the circuit breaker is off or when 
the neutral is disconnected my indicate an odd voltage with a digital 
volt meter.  Put a load on the wires and the voltage will go to near 
zero.  I used a lamp socket with a light bulb.

- if you have metal boxes, they may be wired with a ground wire 
independent of the electrical supply wires.  This was the case in my my 
first and my current houses.

- three conductor wire may have been used to run two circuits with a 
single wire pair.  Two hots share a neutral.  I don't think this is code 
anymore and don't recommend it.  Part of the theory is that if they are 
out a phase (different lines of the 220 supply), the single neutral can 
handle it.

- The red may be a switched circuit, where perhaps there was a wall 
switch that controlled the outlet.  If you have any wall switches, check 
them and see if they come into play in your circuit diagram. At some 
point, an overhead light may have been connected to the wall switch and 
the old wires to the outlet were just left behind.

- Some electricians follow a pattern on supply into the top of the box 
and next outlet out the bottom of the box (I may have that backwards) 
for wall outlets, so if you are mapping multiple outlets, that may make 
things easier.

Good luck with the project.  Taking the time to do the full circuit 
diagram in my 1950 built house was critical to understanding the 
problems I was having and figuring out a way to fix issues, such as 
every outlet but one in the original portion of the house including the 
refrigerator on the same circuit.  I ended up rewiring all those outlets 
into four circuits and ended the common computer lockups or beeping UPS 
warnings.

Brian



On 3/24/2013 8:50 AM, Jim and Kathy wrote:
> I have a very strange electrical problem at my vacation home and am hoping
> someone here has an idea of what could be going on.
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