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Re: Carbon Buildup, was Re: question on C (neither L nor B)

To: "Jim Juhas" <james.f.juhas@snet.net>
Subject: Re: Carbon Buildup, was Re: question on C (neither L nor B)
From: "Bob Spidell" <bspidell@comcast.net>
Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2005 09:34:22 -0800
Jim,


I have the same problem with my '96 Ranger ... have to clean around the throttle
plates every 15K miles or so to keep the throttle from getting sticky.

I'm not a physicist, but from what I know about airflow it's possible to 
explain the
buildup around the throttle: when open, air is of course flowing rapidly past 
the 
throttle in a "forward" direction.  Closing the throttle--especially when done 
quickly--
rapidly creates a significant vacuum in the intake manifold.  For a moment, the 
flow
can actually reverse, blowing the crankcase gases and other contaminants 
throughout
the manifold (remember the "cloud chamber" experiments from high school science,
where rapidly lowering the pressure of a vessel created a  fog throughout the 
vessel from 
the dispersed water droplets in otherwise clear air?).  In other words, closing 
the throttle
creates a backflow which can send the crankcase gases hurtling toward the 
throttle.
Last time I cleaned the throttle I noticed quite a bit of sticky buildup 
throughout the
intake manifold--in a truck with 90K miles that is otherwise running fine.

Another source of the carbon crud could be the fuel vapor recovery system in 
modern
cars.  I have had to replace a vacuum flow sensor--which I "autopsied" and 
found 
a layer of (apparently) carbon dust covering the sensor (which looke like some 
sort
of thermistor).  A reader of "Auto Restorer" magazine wrote in the most recent 
issue 
of putting a small fuel filter upstream of these sensors to prevent the carbon 
dust from 
the fuel vapor recovery canister from contaminating these sensors (resulting in 
a "check 
engine" light).  I may do this myself.

I'm not aware of these types of problems (throttle buildup, etc.) on older cars 
which
didn't use so many vacuum systems.


bs
********************************************
Bob Spidell         San Jose, CA        bspidell@comcast.net
'67 Austin-Healey 3000             '56 Austin-Healey 100M
********************************************

Subject: Re: Carbon Buildup, was Re: question on C (neither L nor B)


> Well, that's what I always thought, but it seems that the crud I got from 
>around the
> throttle body was upstream of where the pcv and egr gases come in.  Does it 
>blow
> backwards up the intake?  Build up around the valves I can understand as 
>coming from
> that pollution stuff, but the thing I had with the Neon was right where the 
>throttle
> plate seats against the throttle body.
> 
> Bob Spidell wrote:
> 
>> Jim,
>>
>> Just got done pondering this question myself.
>>
>> Have concluded the "carbon"--which is downstream of the throttle plate--must
>> be coming from various vacuum inputs to the intake manifold, probably 90% or
>> more from the PCV valve (whose job it is to allow crankcase blowby to be 
>sucked
>> into the intake manifold ... hence the carbon buildup).
>>
>> bs
>> ********************************************
>> Bob Spidell         San Jose, CA        bspidell@comcast.net
>> '67 Austin-Healey 3000             '56 Austin-Healey 100M
>> ********************************************
>>
>> Subject: Carbon Buildup, was Re: question on C (neither L nor B)
>>
>> >
>> > Where does the intake side carbon build up come from?  I recently 
>addressed a
>> > carbon build up problem on our 1998 Dodge Neon R/T with the 2.0 DOHC 
>engine.
>> > The throttle plate was sticking after being parked for a while.  I cleaned 
>a ton
>> > of black soot from the throttle body.






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