Lewis Osborn wrote:
>
> Tuesday, July 27, 1999, 10:45:36 PM, Gene wrote:
>
> > Lewis Osborn wrote:
> <snip>
> >> Well, here's a different perspective. I still think that gasoline has
>gone up
> >> less in the past 75 years than most anything else you can find, (except, of
> >> course, computers, etc) but gouging is gouging. If I worked at an oil
> >> facility these days, I'd be looking over my shoulder. After decades with
> >> virtually no losses, the industry is losing one every couple of weeks -
>and,
> >> each time they loose one, the price at the pump pops at least a nickel.
>The
> >> only times that the price at the pumps has gone up in the past forty years
>has
> >> been due to various crisis - mostly created and/or unsubstantiated.
> <snip>
> > What do you mean by "losing one every couple of weeks"? Losing one of
> > what? What is an oil facility? Yeah, I work in the oil industry, and
>
> I don't have the details at my fingertips, but from memory: Two refinery
> explosions in California (the Bay Area?) just before the first recent hike in
> prices. Then, just as prices started back down, a pipeline in northern
> Washington State had a spill and a fire, killing a couple of bystanders, I
> believe, and prices went up again. They eased off again, and, from bits and
> pieces I caught on the news, some other refinery had a problem of some sort,
> and the prices are up again. I'm not making accusations, I'm recounting
> recent events.
>
> > yeah, I'm looking over my shoulder, but who isnt these days. I'm not
> > going to defend the industry too much one way or another, at least not
> > right now, but from what I understand, they can get close to one barrel
> > of gas from one barrel of crude. But the equipment it takes to do it
>
> I don't pretend to know much about oil refining, but the kerosene, diesel, and
> other "stuff" have to come from somewhere in that barrel.
>
> > costs money to buy and operate. Yeah, oil companys make alot of money,
> > so do car companys, construction companys, etc. Can you still buy a car
> > or house for the same price you could 10 years ago?
>
> No, and, if you look at my post again, you'll see that I stated that, IMO, the
> price of gasoline has risen less in the last 75 years than most other things,
> but, due to the methods used to justify the price increases, I have to wonder
> if the increases were justified by increasing production costs. It _could_ be
> like Bill Gates limiting the supply of Windows, then raising the price on that
> limited supply.
>
> > I have a hard time believing in any industry contrived or created
> > crisises, the guys I've seen that run these outfits cant get along well
> > enough to do things that are sure to benefit the industry, let alone
> > secretly conspire to raise the prices. What happened all those times
> > the price was so low, that a conspiracy too? 1-1-99 gas was $0.95 in
> > WY. Now it is around $1.25. We pay about $0.30 in taxes. Fairly low
> > compared to other states, but still!
>
> "Conspiracy" being a Politicaly Incorrect term these days, I'd refer to it as
> antitrust and price fixing. The guys at the top of the various companies
> don't get along? Don't kid yourself. They may even serve on each others'
> boards, and they are certainly friendly with each other. Company loyalty to
> them is just part of their sales strategy. While the "worker bees" have true
> company loyalty, the execs with the 6- and 7-figure and up incomes
> can work for one company this month and another company next month, taking
> their golden parachute with them each and every time. (This is true of ALL
> industries. For instance, when AT&T's Robert Allen decided to step down, he
> found a guy named John Walters, brought him on board, and started grooming
> him. 9 months later, Bob decided that John wasn't AT&T CEO material, and sent
> him down the road - with TWENTY-SEVEN MILLION DOLLARS of the stockholders'
> money.) Look around and you can find other examples for yourself.
>
> > Sorry, I know this aint ole truck related, but I had to say something!
>
> Don'cher truck run on gas? And don't ya need that paycheck to keep it on the
> road? :-)
>
> > Gene Davis
> > '58 GMC 100
> > NAPCO
>
> Lewis - K7LVO - Medford - Valley of the Rogue - OR
> The Forty - 1940 Chevy Pickup - One Owner
> http://www.teleport.com/~losborn/1940.html
>
> oletrucks is devoted to Chevy and GM trucks built between 1941 and 1959
I really dont care a bunch about this issue, but do get tired of the
conspiracy theory stuff related to oil companys. Politicaly incorrect
or not, what you are talking about is a conspiracy theory. You site the
refinery and pipeline troubles that cause the upward trend in prices,
and still basicly accuse the oil co's of price fixing. If people died,
as in the pipeline explosion, you are basicly calling somebody a
murderer. Pretty strong accusations if I'm reading you right.
Yes, these directors serve on the boards of other companys, but you have
to look real hard to find any oil company board of directors with the
chairman of another oil co. on it, 2 chairs might serve together on the
same board of a company like Motorola, or Westinghouse, but they very
rarely are on the boards of other oil co.'s, in fact though I dont know
all the facts about all the oils, it would surprise me greatly to see it
at all.
Then we can talk stock options. May of these "incentive" plans are
linked to company performance in relation to industry peers. i.e. your
company has to place at or near the top of the field of other oil co's
in order for you to exercise your option. Even leaving ego out, this is
a huge incentive to keep one up on your competitor. Markets, not
conspiracy, set the prices of commoditys, including gas. If these guys
are so smart, they would just steadily increase the price, instead of
permitting these wild fluxuations that piss people off. They are that
smart, and would love to have the means to do this, but there are just
too many factors to control. If you really want something to blame,
blame government and environmentalists for keeping prices high. Casper
Wy. had 3 refineries in '80, now there is one. Salt Lake City had 7
refinerys in '80, now there are 3. Thank you EPA and the clean air act,
parts 1 and 2!. Hey, I like clean air! I'm willing to pay more for gas
to keep clean air, but lets keep the "more" a reasonable amount. And we
wont even get into taxes.
Dont get me wrong, I'm not defending CEO's. The outfit I work for just
merged, as they say, (read friendly take-over) by British Petroleum.
The big winner, from what I see, was the chairman and CEO. He had a
pile of stock, that suddenly was worth 25% more than a month before.
Not to mention any parachute he might have had. However, anyone with
stock benifited somewhat.
Yeah, the ole truck runs on gas, which costs the same as it did when I
graduated High School in '81. Yeah, the paycheck is nice, but if I dont
get it here, I'll get it somewhere else.
Gene Davis
'58 GMC 100
Napco
oletrucks is devoted to Chevy and GM trucks built between 1941 and 1959
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