Happy new year!
Many thanks to everyone who replied to my original mail - the broad and
insightful responses were fascinating...
I have identified the problem as a corroded battery earth lead connection
which appears to be the result of water collecting around the bolt (mainly
when I wash the car....!)
I have cleaned up the lead, applied some grease and will ensure that after
washing I always go for a run to give the engine compartment a chance to
dry.
Once again, many thanks!
Tim.
--------------------
> ----------
> From: MOGLOOM@aol.com[SMTP:MOGLOOM@aol.com]
> Sent: 02 November 1998 17:05
> To: Hooley, Tim T
> Subject: Re: Starting when hot.....
>
> Tim: Sounds like starter brgs (bushings) need to be replaced. When hot it
> allows the armature to rub on the field coils. This is common on most cars
> after several years of age. Not just Morgans!!!
> Cheers,
> Richard Williams
> 4/4 '56 Series II A-258
>
>
> ----------
> From: Ray[SMTP:ray@millicom.clara.net]
> Sent: 02 November 1998 16:25
> To: Hooley, Tim T
> Subject: RE: Starting when hot.....
> Importance: High
>
> Hi to check the chassis earth - just put a starting jumper lead from the
> block to the battery earth side - if that solves the problem - you know
> where the fault lies...
>
> Rgds
>
>
> Ray
>
> ----------
> From: Willburn, Gerry[SMTP:Gerry.Willburn@trw.com]
> Sent: 02 November 1998 15:16
> To: Hooley, Tim T
> Subject: RE: Starting when hot.....
>
> Tim,
>
> I have not heard of the FIAT +4 having this problem before but it is
> probably related to the same problem that Alfa's Chevvy's and most other
> cars with the selenoid mounted to the starter motor.
>
> The problem relates to not having enough battery voltage to pull in the
> selenoid when hot. The symptoms are similar to a low (or dead) battery (a
> low battery will agrivate the problem) and goes away after the car cools
> off
> a bit. It has to do with the wimpy wiring to the starter and the
> resistance
> of the key switch.
>
> I cured the problem on my Alfa by mounting a horn relay RIGHT AT THE
> STARTER. I used the hot battery lead to the starter as the hot wire with
> the horn lead to the selenoid. The old selenoid wire was used to actuate
> the relay. No more problem! The Corvette people go to great lenghts to
> try
> and heat shield the starter.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Gerry
>
> ----------
> From: John Hameleers[SMTP:jhamelee@best.ms.philips.com]
> Sent: 02 November 1998 10:29
> To: Hooley, Tim T
> Subject: Re: Starting when hot.....
>
> Hello Tim,
>
> I have had a simular problem with my 1987 Morgan. In cold condition it
> was no problem at all to start the engine and as soon as the motor
> became hot, it became very difficult to start the engine.
>
> After some "trouble shooting" I found a "bad contact" between the cable
> connection of the motor to the chassis. In the motor compartment near
> the frontwheel you will find a cable connection between the motor and
> the chassis (negative earth connection). Due to some bad contact between
> the cable eye tag and the chassis (paint not sufficiently removed from
> the factory) there was some resistance in the connection and as soon as
> the motor became hot, the resistance increased, causing a drop of the
> voltage of the battery resulting in a very lazy and very slowly turning
> startmotor.
>
> So, what you also could do is, to check the battery voltage as soon as
> the motor is hot and the start motor is getting lazy. Incase you see a
> drop of the battery voltage from 12V to 8 or 9 Volt, I would suggest to
> have a look to a possible bad connection of the motor/chassis cable
> connection.
> To measure the battery voltage, I would suggest to use a "portable"
> voltmeter, because the voltmeter of the Morgan dashboard has a very slow
> reaction time.
>
> After removal of some paint from the chassis near the chassis connection
> bolt (to make good contact) and cleaning of the cable eye tag, the
> starting problem disappeared and I have been driving trouble free for
> over the last 9 years.
>
> Good luck,
>
> John.
>
> '87 4/4
> '39 MX4 SS
>
> ----------
> From: VanBlanken@aol.com[SMTP:VanBlanken@aol.com]
> Sent: 31 October 1998 22:41
> To: Hooley, Tim T
> Subject: Re: Starting when hot.....
>
> Assuming the armature isn't swelling up and making starting difficult
> (which
> can happen as cars get older), I would check the engine/starter ground to
> chassis/battery. Grounds that look good when cold can develop really high
> resistance when the electrons have been trying to flow. If something
> electrical doesn't make sense (like you are POSITIVE there is nothing
> wrong
> with the starter), it is ALWAYS a bad ground.
>
>
-----------------------
> ----------
> From: gregmogdoc@surfnetusa.com[SMTP:gregmogdoc@surfnetusa.com] on
> behalf of SOLOW GREG[SMTP:gregmogdoc@surfnetusa.com]
> Sent: 02 November 1998 00:24
> To: Hooley, Tim T; 'morgans@autox.team.net'
> Subject: RE: Starting when hot.....
>
> It sounds like something in the electrical circuit for the starter is
> getting high resistance when it gets hot.
> 1. Check the battery cables and the connections at both the battery and at
> the ground and at the starter. Make certain that they are all clean and
> tight.
> 2. Use a ammeter to check the stater draw when it is hot and
> malfunctioning. It should be over 100amps and less than 200 amps. If it
> is low the problem is most likley a bad connection, if it is high , it is
> most likely a bad starter. You can also use a volt meter to check
> "voltage drop" in the starter power and ground ciruits. To do this you
> hook a volt meter in parallel with the circuit to be measure while the
> circuit is in operation. This will probably take two people. While the
> starter is cranking, connect the two leads of a volt meter between the
> positive battery post and the battery cable connection frist on the
> solenoid(which on your Fiat engine is part of the starter) and then in a
> second test on the heavy connector between the solenoid and the starter
> motor itself. The difference between the two measurements is the voltage
> drop inside the solenoid. The total voltage drop should not be more the
> .2 volts. Doing the same test on the "ground " side of the circuit,
> between the negative post of the battery and the block of the engine
> should not result in a voltage drop of more than .1 volt. The battery
> must be fully charged to do these tests.DO NOT CONNECT THE VOLTMETER
> BETWEEN THE BATTERY POSITIVE TERMINAL AND THE HEAVEY WIRE THAT GOES
> DIRECTLY INTO THE STARTER IF THE STARTER IS NOT ACTUALLY BEING ACTUATED
> AND IS CRANKING OR TRYING TO CRANK AND DO NOT LEAVE IT CONNECTED AFTER
> STOPPING THE STARTER FROM CRANKING. THE VOLT METER WILL BLOW IF YOU DO. It
> must be in parallel.High voltage drops mean high resistance. High
> resistance ussually means bad connections. Marelli starters are
> notoriously bad. It many be a bad starter. Regards, Greg Solow
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Hooley, Tim T [SMTP:Tim.Hooley@gs.com]
> Sent: Saturday, October 31, 1998 7:49 AM
> To: 'morgans@autox.team.net'
> Subject: Starting when hot.....
>
> Hello,
>
> I have had my 1986 Fiat-powered +4 for almost a year now and I am
> well and
> truly in love....
>
> I am hoping that someone can help me to solve a small problem
> involving the
> car being very difficult to start when hot - the starter motor seems
> to
> become very lazy and turn very slowly, if at all - this seems to get
> worse
> as the car gets hotter...
>
> I realize that this is quite a mundane problem but would really
> appreciate
> any advice.
>
> Thanks.
>
>
> Tim.
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