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Funny red head:<)) Yes, I agree that the input lobes of 1 and 4, and 2 =
and 3 are 180 degrees apart. But I don=E2=80=99t think that intake 1 and =
exhaust 8 are 180 degrees apart. Intake cylinder 1 TL comes a few =
degrees before or after exhaust of cylinder 4 (valves 1 and 8 =
respectively). I think it is exhaust opens a little early before BDC of =
piston and closes at TDC, whilst intake opens a little after TDC of =
piston and closes right at BDC. That=E2=80=99s why you can find modified =
cam profiles: to change the performance characteristics.
=20
But then I am a 71 year old blonde being strung along:<)
=20
Clayton
=20
From: Richard Ewald [mailto:richard.ewald@gmail.com]=20
Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2015 7:00 AM
To: Clayton Kirkwood
Cc: MG List
Subject: Re: [Mgs] tappet question
=20
Why would they be? The lobes for #1 and #4 should be 180 degrees apart =
as should the lobes for #2 and #3.
If they weren't you would have a very odd sounding and rough idle.
If you have ever listened to a air cooled VW motor, the source of their =
funny sounding idle is they fire one cylinder (#3) a bit retarded so it =
runs just a bit cooler as the oil cooler is right on top of the #3 =
cylinder.
But like I said, feel free to pull your valve cover and verify what I =
said. This is the internet, for all you know, I am an 16 year old red =
head stringing you along.
Rick
=20
On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 9:00 PM, Clayton Kirkwood via Mgs =
Thanks but it was the best word that came to mind at the time. I think =
you understand what I was after. So, several degrees either side =
won=E2=80=99t matter is what you=E2=80=99re saying. I was fairly certain =
that was true, however, aren=E2=80=99t the lobes of intake on 1 and out =
on 8 slightly shifted on the cam?=20
=20
TIA,
=20
Clayton
=20
From: Richard Ewald [mailto:richard.ewald@gmail.com =
Sent: Monday, May 18, 2015 8:37 PM
Subject: Re: [Mgs] tappet question
=20
Houston we have a problem with terminology here.=20
TDC and BDC refer to the position of the piston in the bore, or in the =
firing stroke. Period.=20
Piston at the exact top of its stroke? The piston is at TDC. At the =
exact bottom of its stroke? BDC.=20
#1 at the top of its stroke on compression? The engine is at TDC.=20
What you are referring to is the valve being on the lobe or the heel of =
the cam.=20
If you doubt that when #s valves 1 & 3 are on the top of the lobe that =
valves 6 & 8 are fully on the heel feel free to rotate the engine =
several degrees one way or the other and see if the gap gets bigger (it =
won't)=20
This is because a camshaft is a circle (base circle) with a bump on one =
side. Anywhere on the heel is going to give you the same clearance.=20
There are even some engines that instruct you to put the engine @ TDC #1 =
adjust half the valves then rotate the engine 360 degrees and then =
adjust the other half.=20
Rick
Sent from my iPhone
On May 18, 2015, at 10:03, Clayton Kirkwood via Mgs <mgs@autox.team.net =
Regarding Rule of Nine, I understand having 8 all the way up to set 1. =
But there is a significant rotation between =E2=80=9Creal close to the =
top=E2=80=9D in front of, and after TDC. This can be seen with rotation =
the engine and seeing very little to no movement. Also, if I am not =
mistaken 8 TDC is not perfectly in line with BDC of 1; there is a bias. =
This means that when 8 is TDC, 1 is not absolutely BDC ready for =
measurement. So the question is, how do you ensure, with all of that =
slop, that you truly have BDC?
=20
TIA,
=20
Clayton
=20
=20
_______________________________________________
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
Unsubscribe: =
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/mgs/richard.ewald@gmail.com
=20
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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'=
>Funny red head:<)) Yes, I agree that the input lobes of 1 and 4, and =
2 and 3 are 180 degrees apart. But I don=E2=80=99t think that intake 1 =
and exhaust 8 are 180 degrees apart. Intake cylinder 1 TL comes a few =
degrees before or after exhaust of cylinder 4 (valves 1 and 8 =
respectively). I think it is exhaust opens a little early before BDC of =
piston and closes at TDC, whilst intake opens a little after TDC of =
piston and closes right at BDC. That=E2=80=99s why you can find modified =
cam profiles: to change the performance =
characteristics.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'=
><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'=
>But then I am a 71 year old blonde being strung =
along:<)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'=
><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'=
>Clayton<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'=
><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</span><=
/b><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> =
Richard Ewald [mailto:richard.ewald@gmail.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, =
May 19, 2015 7:00 AM<br><b>To:</b> Clayton Kirkwood<br><b>Cc:</b> MG =
List<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Mgs] tappet =
question<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>Why =
would they be? The lobes for #1 and #4 should be 180 degrees apart =
as should the lobes for #2 and #3.<o:p></o:p></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>If they weren't you would have a very odd sounding and =
rough idle.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>If you have =
ever listened to a air cooled VW motor, the source of their funny =
sounding idle is they fire one cylinder (#3) a bit retarded so it runs =
just a bit cooler as the oil cooler is right on top of the #3 =
cylinder.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>But like I said, =
feel free to pull your valve cover and verify what I said. This is =
the internet, for all you know, I am an 16 year old red head stringing =
you along.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Rick<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>On Mon, =
May 18, 2015 at 9:00 PM, Clayton Kirkwood via Mgs <<a =
href=3D"mailto:mgs@autox.team.net"; =
target=3D"_blank">mgs@autox.team.net</a>> =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid =
#CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Thanks but it was the best word that came to =
mind at the time. I think you understand what I was after. So, several =
degrees either side won=E2=80=99t matter is what you=E2=80=99re saying. =
I was fairly certain that was true, however, aren=E2=80=99t the lobes of =
intake on 1 and out on 8 slightly shifted on the cam? =
</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>TIA,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Clayton</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b>From:</b>=
Richard Ewald [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:richard.ewald@gmail.com"; =
target=3D"_blank">richard.ewald@gmail.com</a>] <br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, =
May 18, 2015 8:37 PM<br><b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:crk@godblessthe.us"; =
target=3D"_blank">crk@godblessthe.us</a><br><b>Cc:</b> <<a =
href=3D"mailto:mgacars@yahoogroups.com"; =
target=3D"_blank">mgacars@yahoogroups.com</a>>; <<a =
href=3D"mailto:mgs@autox.team.net"; =
target=3D"_blank">mgs@autox.team.net</a>><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: =
[Mgs] tappet question<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p><=
/o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Houston we =
have a problem with terminology =
here. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>TDC and BDC =
refer to the position of the piston in the bore, or in the firing =
stroke. Period. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Piston at =
the exact top of its stroke? The piston is at TDC. At the exact =
bottom of its stroke? BDC. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>#1 at the =
top of its stroke on compression? The engine is at =
TDC. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>What you =
are referring to is the valve being on the lobe or the heel of the =
cam. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>If you =
doubt that when #s valves 1 & 3 are on the top of the lobe that =
valves 6 & 8 are fully on the heel feel free to rotate the engine =
several degrees one way or the other and see if the gap gets bigger (it =
won't) <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>This is =
because a camshaft is a circle (base circle) with a bump on one side. =
Anywhere on the heel is going to give you the same =
clearance. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>There are =
even some engines that instruct you to put the engine @ TDC #1 adjust =
half the valves then rotate the engine 360 degrees and then adjust the =
other half. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>Rick<o:p></o=
:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><br><br>Sent=
from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>On May 18, =
2015, at 10:03, Clayton Kirkwood via Mgs <<a =
href=3D"mailto:mgs@autox.team.net"; =
target=3D"_blank">mgs@autox.team.net</a>> =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Regarding Rule of Nine, I understand having 8 =
all the way up to set 1. But there is a significant rotation between =
=E2=80=9Creal close to the top=E2=80=9D in front of, and after TDC. This =
can be seen with rotation the engine and seeing very little to no =
movement. Also, if I am not mistaken 8 TDC is not perfectly in line with =
BDC of 1; there is a bias. This means that when 8 is TDC, 1 is not =
absolutely BDC ready for measurement. So the question is, how do you =
ensure, with all of that slop, that you truly have =
BDC?</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>TIA,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Clayton</span><o:p></o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p><=
/o:p></p></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>______________________________________=
_________<br><br><a =
href=3D"mailto:Mgs@autox.team.net";>Mgs@autox.team.net</a><br>Donate: <a =
href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html"; =
target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>Suggested =
annual donation $12.75<br>Archive: <a =
href=3D"http://www.team.net/archive"; =
target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/archive</a><br>Forums: <a =
href=3D"http://www.team.net/forums"; =
target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/forums</a><br>Unsubscribe: <a =
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" =
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@gmail.com</a><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></body></html>
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