Hi Kelvin...
FI is fast becoming a real possibility on one of my LBC's
I've read probably 25 companies worth of 'electronics' and 'tech'
info posted on the web,... 30 or so 'catalogs' from mfr'res
of parts an systems, and have even run at least 7 software
systems on my 'puter used to program FI systems.
I've collected info on crank, points, dists and -less, cam triggered,
batch, multi-mode and sequential ignition timing control
systems.
Check out the technologies avail these days. It's amazing.
Have you ever played a video game that required you
to at least toggle the buttons and joystick around a bit to
'calibrate' the controls. .... it's almost no different.
Many of these systems are self- learning, and can be set
to 'record' history files to use to adjust the 'tables'. MUCH
faster than the old row and column manual entry days.
... A neat feature of some... a 'training mode'.
Click a button, and as you drive, and tweak the original
'closed loop self- learning' mode for a bit more or less
as desired and the record file stores the 'modified' curves.
Check out the 'big boys' ...systems like Electromotive
and Ford, etc.
...I'll have to get a few links to tie it all together for everybody
Paul Tegler
ptegler@cablespeed.com
www.teglerizer.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dodd, Kelvin" <doddk@mossmotors.com>
To: "'ptegler@cablespeed'" <ptegler@cablespeed.com>; "Kai M. Radicke"
<kmr@pil.net>; "Paul Root" <proot@iaces.com>
Cc: <Aeseeyou@aol.com>; <mgs@autox.team.net>
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2002 1:46 PM
Subject: RE: MGB - possible Fuel injection - setups
> I prefer to learn.... hands on
> > 'tis the fun of it.
>
> Here, here. Can't let the home boys have all the fun with
> their computer controlled econoboxes.
>
> > Secondly.... porting and polishing a head is THE
> > #one step in any performance upgrades. With no
> > other mechanical system upgrades, you can easily
> > gain 8-20% in power with a pro- p $ p job.
> > The DYI'er first-timer could easily get 10%
>
> Minor disagreement. The #1 step is to ensure that the fuel/air
> mixture is correct for the required power band and the spark makes it go
> boom at the right time. Porting and polishing is great for upper end
power,
> but big ports can reduce torque at lower revs.
>
> >
> > With a properly p& p in place, FI will easily add 15-25%
> > power increase in an older 'non-performance' designed
> > engine.
>
>
> FI will only increase power if there was a problem with mixture in
> the power band that your are concerned with. FI allows greater control
> over mixture, nothing else.
>
> >
> > So for the price of a straight up stock rebuild,
> > you can assemble an FI system, clean up the ports,
> > and add a conservative 15-20% power increase
> > with good emissions, proper mpg economy, and much
> > easier starting in any weather condition.
>
>
> This can only be done with a correctly matched system and loads of
> dyno time, or very great luck. Check out the Grassroots Motorsports
article
> on fuel injecting their rotary powered Spitfire. Fuel mapping is like
> setting up a Formula One race car, everything is adjustable and everything
> needs to be adjusted, otherwise you end up worse off than with a stock
> setup.
> >
> > Oh... and the web pages showing my route will be up
> > soon. :-)
> >
>
> Cool, be looking for them.
>
> > Paul Tegler
>
>
>
>
>
> > > SDS specifically states that their ECU is not meant to work
> > with siamesed
> > > heads, like MGs have. I don't know the reasoning behind
> > it, but it is
> > > clearly stated on SDS' website (www.sdsefi.com)
>
>
> I can see how electronic controls rely upon action/reaction for each
> cylinder. Lean mixture, squirt more fuel. In a siamese or TB setup,
there
> is not a direct correlation for each cylinder. Mixture is very much
> dependent on flow speed through the manifold and head. At high revs this
is
> not so much of a problem, but during transition and low rev pulling the
> shared mixture is very variable due to intake and head design.
>
>
>
> > >
> > > The other problem is that cost. The SDS ECU is about $850,
> > add two to
> > four
> > > injectors, MAP sensor, 4 wire O2 sensor, fuel rail, hose,
> > throttle bodies
> >
> > > and TBS unit, wiring harnesses -- It would be hart to make
> > a profit even
> > at
> > > a $1500 selling price. And also who ever makes the kit
> > would have to put
> > > hours of dyno time into coming up with a suitable fuel map,
> > that the end
> > > user doesn't have to play with so there is no chance of
> > them screwing it
> > up.
>
> This is why TWM only sells the bits. Tech service would be a
> killer. If you want to play, you pay. Then you are pretty much on your
> own.
>
>
>
> > Now 20 years after
> > production there are
> > > countless permutations of engine specifications, and I can
> > not see how it
> > > would be possible to develop a map to suit them all.
>
> Simple feedback loop, just like an SU. Vacuum-fuel. No Vacuum-no
> fuel. Installing fuel injection is very simple. Optimising it for
maximum
> power takes lots of time/money/dyno. The difference between carbs and EFI
> is that you can adjust fueling without having to play with a pile of jets.
>
>
>
> I am
> > of the opinion
> > > that configuration of EFI settings from a laptop computer,
> > while on a dyno
> > > or on a road course, is beyond the ability of the average
> > person on this
> > > list.
>
>
>
> Just gotta steer with your knees.
>
>
> > > Who is going to spend $1500 on EFI for their MGB, when a
> > new set of SU's
> > is
> > > 1/5 of that?
>
> Only the lunatic fringe (hand up in air)
>
>
> SU's are fairly efficient, and quite
> > accurate... I think it
> > > would be very difficult for a properly setup EFI to be
> > provide any better
> > > fuel economy than SUs do (in excellent tune). SUs can
> > adapt themselves
> > > quite easily, with a different needle and a retune to many
> > parameters...
> > if
> > > you end up putting a new cam (of a different profile) in
> > your MGB, you're
> > > going to end up remapping the entire EFI map.
>
>
> And you are going to leave your SUs alone?? Methinks not, you are
> going to find some guru who has some inkling of how much to buff off the
> needle with emery cloth to increase richness at some lean spot in the
power
> curve. More likely unburnt fuel will wash the oil off the rings and fill
> the head with carbon. With EFI, you can remap the entire system, not just
> fire shots in the dark.
>
>
>
> Many good points made on both sides. With the growth of street
> racing, EFI component prices are dropping drastically. The cross flow
head
> makes port injection a pretty easy task. Crank fire ignition also solves
> the distributor condition/accessibility problems in one swell foop. I'm
> interested in learning more, and am planning on putting something together
> to play with in a spare chassis (in my copious spare time), just for fun.
> There is just something about seeing how far the old B-series lump can go.
> Calmer minds are likely to point out that a modern engine swap will be
> simpler, but what does simple have to do with anything. (besides my mind)
>
>
> All the best
>
> Kelvin.
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