I don't want to get into a thread about this on an MG list, but I at least
want to say I have to agree with Matt Pringle. People should be able to
trust their friends, and feel comfortable walking with them. You say she
shouldn't walk with her friend? Who should she walk with - only family
members? We'll go back 100 years when boys and girls didn't mix except in
the presence of family. She didn't *think* she was walking alone with a
stranger, she *thought* she was with someone hopefully trustworthy.
If she was assaulted she has every right to report it, and hopefully
without accusations that she was being suggestive. That's what the States
were like as recently as the 60s (or more so); women were presumed to must
have "encouraged" men to rape them.
It is a bad accusation if false, but then she should be held accountable.
If true, she has every right to report it - and should. She should also
consider carrying pepper spray (if it is allowed in the UK).
But to suggest that he wasn't at fault and that she was suggestive - I
agree with Matt. People have worked very hard to move beyond that way of
thinking.
At 06:14 PM 10/18/99 -0400, James H. Nazarian wrote:
>Shame on yourself pringle.
>
>After you walk through New York's Central Park at night, let me hear you
sermonize
>to your muggers about how unfair they were to you for depriving you of
your right to
>jeopardize your life. After they stop laughing at you, go to the police
and file a
>complaint for assault, robbery, mugging and hurting your simple minded
feelings. The
>cops in New York can always use a good laugh, but I doubt they will have
time to
>lecture you about how stupid you were to take that walk. A little common
sense goes
>a long way. Unless you want to be mugged you do not walk through Central
Park at
>night. Granny said, "Don't sleep in the guy's apartment, drink with him,
get alone
>with him, then wonder why he made an advance." Maybe he thought she was
making an
>advance on him. Your granny was right, you should listen to her advise...
and if you
>have a daughter tell her the same. As far as your soap box, "Shame on you
for not
>storing MG parts in it. Get real bub, this is the nineties. Better for a
woman to
>avoid rape than to protest the violation to her rights after it has
occurred. That's
>called "street smart".
>
>Jim
>
>Matt Pringle wrote:
>
>> Shame on you. Mike asks for advice and support from a group of people
>> he would consider friends and you have the nerve to suggest:
>>
>> 1) It is easy for woman to come forward with charges of abuse
>>
>> 2) She is just as much at fault for being in the stairwell as he is for
>> pushing himself on her.
>>
>> 3) That this man's girlfriend was pursuing this relationship as more
>> than a friendship.
>>
>> 4) That she gave suggestive signals.
>>
>> This is the 1990's my friend, we as a society don't subscribe to these
>> falicies any more. I suggest you talk to your
>> sister/daughter/grand-daughter and ask her to enlighten you.
>>
>> Shame on you.
>>
>> Matt
>>
>> James H. Nazarian wrote:
>> >
>> > Mike,
>> >
>> > Sorry to eavesdrop on your e-mail... I failed to look at the subject
>> > before
>> > reading it. You (and your girlfriend) have a responsibility to hold your
>> > tongue(s). You don't know what happened, because you weren't there. If
>> > you
>> > choose to believe the girlfriend, that is your choice. In this country,
>> > a mere
>> > accusation of this kind can become a character assassination and
>> > terribly
>> > expensive for his defense even if he is found innocent. Then I hope he
>> > would sue
>> > his false accuser for irreparable harm to his good name and reputation.
>> >
>> > "Filing" a complaint as a precaution against it happening again ignores
>> > the fact
>> > that this is what motivates the legal/police business to prosecute and
>> > convict
>> > innocent people... money. If you really want to document it, have her
>> > write a
>> > statement, seal it in an envelope, and have the postal service put a
>> > date stamp
>> > over the seam of the flap. Then store it safely away. You can even send
>> > him a
>> > copy.
>> >
>> > Since you have known and trusted him, maybe you should call him on the
>> > phone and
>> > have a friendly chat about it before you jump the gun and make a false
>> > accusation. This will also serve him notice that you know what she said.
>> > If you
>> > were ready to go there to "kill the SOB", surely you can muster the
>> > eloquence to
>> > advise him to stay away from her, including to not confront her about
>> > telling
>> > you. This would be for his own good too. Always bear in mind that it is
>> > easy for
>> > a woman to make such an accusation, including as a cover-up to something
>> > she
>> > did. It is very difficult to stop the ball once it gets rolling.
>> >
>> > In common sense 101, she should have learned to avoid situations like
>> > being
>> > alone in a stairwell with a stranger. Just as he has a responsibility to
>> > leave
>> > her alone, she has a responsibility to avoid giving suggestive signals.
>> > You too
>> > should hope that he isn't murdered during your next visit to London,
>> > 'cause you
>> > just told 500 people you are pondering killing someone. Yikes! I
>> > wouldn't want
>> > to be in your shoes.
>> >
>> > Don't play with dynamite if you don't like loud noises.
>> >
>> > Jim
>> >
>> > PS: I fail to see the connection here with MG's, other than one man
>> > asking for
>> > advice from some others. Good luck my friend.
>> >
>> > Michael Graziano wrote:
>> >
>> > > Hey folks.
>> > >
>> > > I have a little news that's bothering me to no end. In fact, I'm
quite
>> > > upset.
>> > >
>> > > My girlfriend is currently going to school in London. I'm stuck
here in the
>> > > states.
>> > >
>> > > She called me more than a little upset Saturday night (3:30 am your
time)
>> > > that one of her friends, someone I actually know and whom we both
trusted,
>> > > trapped her in the stairwell of her apartment house and forced
himself on
>> > > her. Mainly just kissing, but a little more as well. She escaped
by first
>> > > kneeing him at the first opportunity, and then running into her
apartment.
>> > > THe advances were unwanted and unprovoked. He was a little drunk.
>> > >
>> > > After my initial reaction (which was to start making plans to fly to
>> > > London), I realized that no good could come of it. Being arrested
in a a
>> > > foreign land is not what I had in mind for this week. My next
thought was
>> > > for her to report him to the police and file a complaint. Maybe not
file
>> > > charges, but at least have it on record in case he tries something
else.
>> > > Letting him know a report was filed might be a future deterent.
Wini, my
>> > > GF, doesn't think that will do any good. She is of the opinion that
things
>> > > of this nature are taken lightly by the police constables.
>> > >
>> > > What is your the general opinion on this matter. What steps can we
take
>> > > short of my killing the son-of-a-bitch? I promised her I would do
nothing
>> > > until i spoke with her, but doing nothing is eating me up inside.
>> > >
>> > > Mike
>
>
>
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