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Re: pulling out the spacers in the front hubs

To: <REwald9535@aol.com>, <mgs@autox.team.net>
Subject: Re: pulling out the spacers in the front hubs
From: "Paul Hunt" <paul.hunt1@virgin.net>
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 21:04:57 +0100
Rick - exactly, except you missed out the crucial bit.  The manual says to
put too many shims in to create too much endfloat, tighten the nut, measure
the end-float, then reduce the shims "to get the correct the end-float".
I.e. you end up with end-float.  You cannot have end-float *and* pre-load.
Some applications may well call for pre-load.  The MGB requires .002 to .004
end-float.

PaulH.
http://freespace.virgin.net/paul.hunt1/

-----Original Message-----
From: REwald9535@aol.com <REwald9535@aol.com>
To: paul.hunt1@virgin.net <paul.hunt1@virgin.net>; mgs@autox.team.net
<mgs@autox.team.net>
Date: 31 March 1999 04:16
Subject: Re: pulling out the spacers in the front hubs


>Paul,
>If you tighten the nut on the end of the axle to 70 Ft. Lbs.  I can tell
you
>for certain there will be no endfloat. (unless you have superman doing the
>checking)
>so where does the end float referred to in the manual come from and why
>doesn't the wheel lock up when torqued this tight?
>If you have a wheel bearing laying around pick it up and look at it.  If
you
>hold the inner race stationary you will notice a small amount play in the
>axial direction in the outer part of the bearing (caused by clearances in
the
>cage).  Now go wipe all that grease off you hands.
>When an MG front hub is assembled it goes something like this.  The inner
>bearing is against the shoulder on the axle stub then comes the spacer,
then
>shim(s) then the outer bearing, washer then the nut.  When torqued down the
>nut presses against the washer which presses against the outer bearing
which
>presses I sure you get the idea.  As I said at the beginning of this post
when
>torqued to 70 Ft. Lbs. there will be NO endfloat in THIS part of the
assembly.
>The endfloat comes from the play inside each bearing.  By adjusting the
amount
>(thickness) of shims in the pack you can adjust the amount of endfloat and
the
>amount of preload on the bearings.  Look at the procedure in the manual, it
>tells you to put too many shims in to create excessive endfloat, measure
the
>endfloat and adjust the pack accordingly.  If you were to take out too many
>shims the endfloat would be non extant and the preload excessive causing
>premature bearing failure.  If the endplay is excessive the preload will be
>low causing vibration in the brakes, and once premature bearing failure.
In
>this case adjusting endfloat provides a way to preload the bearings
correctly,
>kinda neat actually.  As once set up correctly as long as no parts are
>replaced (or lost) any idiot can repack the wheel bearings and get it
right.
>I hope that this clears up any confusion.
>Rick Ewald
>
>
>In a message dated 3/30/99 10:58:18 AM Pacific Standard Time,
>paul.hunt1@virgin.net writes:
>
>> The Leyland Workshop Manaul and Haynes are quite clear in respect of the
>>  MGB, there should be an end-float of .002 to .004, not a preload.
>>
>>  PaulH.
>>  http://freespace.virgin.net/paul.hunt1/
>>
>>  -----Original Message-----
>>  From: REwald9535@aol.com <REwald9535@aol.com>
>>  To: paul.hunt1@virgin.net <paul.hunt1@virgin.net>; mgs@autox.team.net
>>  <mgs@autox.team.net>
>>  Date: 30 March 1999 07:24
>>  Subject: Re: pulling out the spacers in the front hubs
>>
>>
>>  >Paul,
>>  >Conical bearings need some (not much) pre loading.  There are several
ways
>>  to
>>  >do this.  MG used a spacer and as you mentioned a torque of 40-70 Ft
Lbs.
>>  >With the spacer and correct shims fitted this gives the correct pre
load
>on
>>  >the wheel bearings.  Other makes have a different way of skinning the
same
>>  >cat.  My company (Volvo) on 240's have the technician torque the wheel
>>  >bearings to 30 Ft. Lbs. and spin the wheel to center the bearings, then
>>  loosen
>>  >the nut 1/2 turn and retorque to 11-15 inch Lbs.  this also pre loads
the
>>  >bearings to the correct amount.  Either way the idea is to remove the
slop
>>  and
>>  >not to over load the bearings which would cause a premature failure.
>>  >Rick Ewald
>>  >67 MGB
>>  >
>>  >In a message dated 3/29/99 12:30:42 PM Pacific Standard Time,
>>  >paul.hunt1@virgin.net writes:
>>  >
>>  >> As well as the spacer and shims, when tightened to the correct torque
of
>>  >>  40 - 70lb ft, strengthening the axle shaft they also stop any
tendency
>>  for
>>  >>  the inner races to spin on the axle.  The correct shims will give an
>>  >>  end-float of .002 to .004in, not a loading of 11 to 15 in lb.
>>  >>
>>  >>  PaulH.
>>  >>  http://freespace.virgin.net/paul.hunt1/
>>  >>
>>  >>  -----Original Message-----
>>  >>  From: Karl Shultz <karl.shultz@ibm.net>
>>  >>  To: MG List <mgs@autox.team.net>
>>  >>  Date: 26 March 1999 05:20
>>  >>  Subject: pulling out the spacers in the front hubs
>>  >>
>>  >>
>>  >>  >Hello MGers,
>>  >>  >
>>  >>  >Hope all is well with you getting your assorted brit cars ready for
>the
>>  >>  >warm season.  I'm coming along myself - I've replaced the brake
lines
>>  >>  >(which looked as old, if not older, than the entire 73 B itself),
the
>>  >>  >heater control valve (with a gasket now) some hoses, and made some
>>  hacks
>>  >>  >into the electrical system whose effectiveness seems to vary day to
>>  day.
>>  >>  >
>>  >>  >Anyhow, I took a trip to Flying Circuis Cars in Durham, NC.
They're a
>>  >>  >Brit car specialist where I buy my parts.  So I go to buy shims for
>the
>>  >>  >front hubs (which rattled about horribly) and a guy came in from
the
>>  >>  >garage area telling me something interesting.  I'd like to bounce
this
>>  >>  >off the group, it seems odd.
>>  >>  >
>>  >>  >He said that the big spacer, and the accompanying shims, could be
>>  >>  >installed in the trash can rather than the hub.  "Conical bearings
can
>>  >>  >accept the load themselves no problem; people used to think you had
to
>>  >>  >make perfect contact between the bearing housings with those shims,
>but
>>  >>  >all the cars we work on, we just pull all that stuff out.
>>  >>  >
>>  >>  >Odd, no?  I tried it.  The hub can be put together and adjusted up
>just
>>  >>  >fine without all this stuff.  But concerned for the longevity of
the
>>  >>  >bearings (they say "made in england," so they must be as old as the
>car
>>  >>  >too...) I haven't really finalized the work.
>>  >>  >
>>  >>  >Any thoughts on this odd suggestion?
>>  >>  >
>>  >>  >--
>>  >>  >Karl Shultz
>>  >>  >95 Integra GS-R, black, loud
>>  >>  >73 MGB, orange, only marginally drivable


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