I have a simple way to test this all higher math aside... I get in the
wagon and you push we need to make a course correction to the left..
Shall i turn the wheel or drag the brake ??
Dahlgren
Dick J wrote:
>
> It's got nothing to do with my bravery - - I
> ain't conna try it at all - - I'm sticking with a
> plain old Ford truck box, pitman arm, and drag
> link to a solid beam front axle.
>
> But I'm not sure it would slow the vehicle down
> any more than any other type of steering. Mayf
> can probably talk to this a lot more than I can,
> but I think old man Newton's rule means that the
> overall drag and loss of energy to the vehicle
> resulting from changing it's direction of
> movement will be exactly the same, whether it is
> done by turning the steering wheels, applying
> drag (brake) to one or both wheels on one side of
> the car, or leaning the wheel to produce reduced
> circumference (ala motorcycle or Euclid road
> grader). The overall resistance to going
> striaght will be the same no matter what method
> is used. That may even apply to fin and
> rudder-induced steering. Mayf - is this right???
>
> Dick J
>
> --- dahlgren <dahlgren@uconect.net> wrote:
> > and slow it down too maybe ????? really want to
> > try differential braking
> > at 300 . You are a very brave man
> > Dahlgren
> >
> > Dick J wrote:
> > >
> > > Mayf, what if there was no steering at all.
> > I
> > > mean in the traditional sense. Both wheeled
> > and
> > > tracked tractors have split brakes, and a few
> > > years ago dune buggies had split brakes to
> > make
> > > them turn sharper. It would seem that at
> > higher
> > > speeds, very slight brake input to one side
> > or
> > > the other should be sufficient to steer the
> > car.
> > >
> > > Dick J
> > >
> > > --- "Lawrence E. & Cathy R. Mayfield"
> > > <lemay@hiwaay.net> wrote:
> > > > Date: Thu, 25 May 2000 16:21:14
> > > > To: land-speed@auox.team.net
> > > > From: "Lawrence E. & Cathy R. Mayfield"
> > > > <lemay@hiwaay.net>
> > > > Subject: Front and Rear Steering
> > Thoughts...
> > > >
> > > > Wow, what an interesting thread! I sat
> > down a
> > > > few moments ago to think
> > > > about all that I had read on the thread and
> > to
> > > > see if what I had read I
> > > > understood. First, there were many thoughts
> > > > about why do a rear steer if it
> > > > is not needed? What are the benefits. Well
> > I
> > > > assumed that rear steer was
> > > > being used (thought about) because the
> > wheels
> > > > in front are pulling the car
> > > > instead of pushing it. Being able to steer
> > from
> > > > the rear wheels would seem
> > > > to reduce the complexity at the front by
> > > > reducing the steering knuckle set
> > > > ups, CV joints or u joints, etc. Putting
> > the
> > > > steering at the back wheels
> > > > seems so logical in this case because we
> > would
> > > > then just be running the car
> > > > backwards so to speak. And we all have had
> > some
> > > > sort of experience in
> > > > backing up..most of the time we make
> > mistakes
> > > > (you ought to see my driveway
> > > > - car tracks over the lawn on both sides).
> > I
> > > > attribute this to looking over
> > > > my shoulder while going backwards. But in a
> > > > purpose designed car I would
> > > > hope to be facing forward! So what is it
> > that
> > > > makes this so difficult.
> > > > There was some thoughts about the facts
> > that
> > > > the drive wheels arrive at the
> > > > corner first and we have to think ahead to
> > make
> > > > it work right. For sure!
> > > > However, I don't think this is the reason
> > > > straight line cars experience
> > > > difficulty.
> > > >
> > > > Danger Warning Will Robinson...read at
> > your
> > > > own peril....outlandish
> > > > thoughts from here on...
> > > >
> > > > Ok, now that the disclaimer is out of the
> > way,
> > > > here is what I think. We
> > > > all grew up being taught that in a skid we
> > need
> > > > to turn the front whel into
> > > > the skid to regain contro. And why is that,
> > > > well after drawing a small free
> > > > body diagram, I see that when the front
> > > > steering wheels are turned in the
> > > > direction of skid the rear drive wheels
> > tend to
> > > > drive the car into that
> > > > direction giving directional control back
> > to
> > > > the driver. Thia is all pretty
> > > > straight forward.
> > > >
> > > > Now what happens when a front drive rear
> > steer
> > > > goes into a skid. Our
> > > > training says to turn into the skid. Right?
> > So
> > > > if we turn into the skid,
> > > > the drive wheels pull the car even farther
> > off
> > > > into the skid. This most
> > > > obviously causes consternation and a lot of
> > > > over correction. The truth is,
> > > > that in a rear steer car the steering
> > wheels
> > > > must be turned away from the
> > > > skid not into it. That way the drive wheels
> > > > will pull the rear of the car
> > > > around and back into directional control.
> > > >
> > > > One list member correctly, I believe, hit
> > the
> > > > nail on the head. It is all
> > > > what we grew up with. Had we been driving
> > rear
> > > > steer all along, we would be
> > > > having this discussion about front steer! I
> > > > think that a well designed car
> > > > with the driver brainwashed into the
> > correct
> > > > manuevers to get out of spins
> > > > and skids would fare just as well as any
> > other
> > > > car.
> > > >
> > > > Would there be any interest into building
> > a
> > > > small go kart size test
> > > > vehicle? Heck even a go hart would work.
> > Just
> > > > need to put the driver and
> > > > control in so that the driver faces the
> > "front"
> > > > drive wheels and rig the
> > > > steering. The get out on the skid pad with
> > some
> > > > wet skids and see how to
> > > > control? Heck, maybe this is my "barstool"
> > pit
> > > > machine...
> > > >
> > > > Control is now returned to the reader.
> > > >
> > > > mayf (with migraine so thoughts may be
> > fuzzy)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > L.E. Mayfield
> > > > 124 Maximillion Drive
> > > > Madison, Al. 35758-8171
> > > > ph: 1-256-837-1051
> > > >
> > > > http://home.hiwaay.net/~lemay
> > > >
> > > > lemay@hiwaay.net
> > > >
> > > > Sunbeam Tiger, B9471136
> > > > Sunbeam Alpine Bonneville Land Speed Racer,
> > > > '66 Hydroplane Drag Boat (390 FE)
> > >
> > >
> >
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