Malcom,
First off here is my quarters worth that is made of of 20 pennies and a nickel,
Malcom I truly believe that you are sniffling over what you have yet to
accomplish
a land speed record. Either FIA or any other sanctioning body. I cant believe
you
would take away in some cases a lifetime dream, and the history of the
Bonneville
Salt Flats, and the participants. These times, and speeds have always been
recognized as World Land Speed Records, and the titles from the successful
people
at Bonneville should not be taken away. Im just wondering if you have some of
the
"we are better than you" feeling going on. I believe that if you were allowed to
run at bonneville with your vehicle, and you set a record according to the
sanctioning body that runs the events at Speedweek, World Finals, etc. etc you
too
would be claiming a world land speed record too, you wouldn't be claiming a
local
record in the USA.
I would sure like you to come to the USA and Bonneville, and tell the people
that
have been out there for over 40 years running at Bonneville and tell them their
"World Land Speed Records" are garbage and arent recognized by anyone other than
stateside
I guess I threw in a few more pennies that I found in the cushions of the couch
Jonathan Amo
Glen Barrett wrote:
> Right on Wes, I couldn't have said it better
> Glen Barrett
> Chief Timer SCTA/BNI and proud of it.
>
> Wester S Potter wrote:
>
> > Malcolm, List,
> > This always reminds me of the ball games when I was a kid when the one who
> > owned the ball got mad about something and took his ball and went home.
> > The honor has generally gone out of the International record claiming game
> > unless we all accept the same rules.
> > Accurate records are established as accurate timing equipment is used. When
> > Teddy Tetzlaff first ran on the Bonneville Salt Flats in 1914 his runs were
> > timed by a group of men holding stop watches. His stop watch timed speed
> > was marginally faster than the same car had gone at Daytona (or Ormond
> > Beach) four years previously ... in the 147 MPH plus range. I have no
> > knowledge of how the car was timed at Daytona. The American Automobile
> > Association disallowed the Bonneville timing because they didn't accept
> > times using a stopwatch under ten miles or one hour in time.
> > When Ab Jenkins, Malcolm Campbell, George E. T. Eyston and John Cobb were
> > fighting it out for flying mile and endurance records in the thirties on the
> > salt, their timing was accepted by all parties involved including the AAA
> > and USAC who timed and certified those records. This was because they were
> > all running at the same approximate time of year on the same course and each
> > was observing the others times and runs.
> > When Otto Crocker timed the runs at Bonneville Speed Week in the early
> > years, all the hot rod competetors accepted his times for the same reason.
> > The Salt Lake City Chamber of Commerce who staged the races accepted his
> > equipment.
> > With the advent of computer timing and the available print-outs it depends
> > on the certification of the accuracy of the computer. We use a software
> > program for USFRA that is a slight modification of the one used by NHRA to
> > time drag racing. We could give reaction times, times for any distance
> > along the course, entry qualifying trap times, kilo, mile, exit trap times
> > and any combination of the above. All we have to do is accurately set up
> > the electric eyes, distances and wire. SCTA/BNI clocks use software that
> > gives the same accurate kind of readouts.
> > At one time the AAA, USAC, FIA and other governing bodies owned the only
> > certified clocks and were used for record runs because they were accepted by
> > all involved. Today my nine year old neighbor could write a software
> > program with a speed break down to several decimal points more accurate than
> > their timers were. The FIA officials who certify record runs just look at
> > the set up and say OK. They don't even own clocks to time runs on the salt!
> > The whole world of speed claims is academic unless there is the HONOR
> > involved among racers running at different times on different courses to use
> > accurate equipment, measurements and to follow accepted timing practice and
> > procedures.
> > Let the FIA play with their multi-million dollar Formula 1 toys and
> > politics. Who cares that they don't attempt to be up to date enough to have
> > defined classes for various body styles, fuels etc.? Other than respect for
> > Andy Green and the whole Thrust program for what they acomplished, does
> > their wingless airplane record change anything essential with wheel driven
> > racing? It's a lot like asking someone else to critique your bedroom
> > activities or asking an official from a Rugby federation to take over the
> > NFL. Who needs them? We don't want someone like Bernie Ecclestone (sp?)
> > sticking his nose in land-speed racing just as the FIA doesn't want Gary
> > Allen or Mike Manghelli trying to dictate to their sport. If Nolan White's
> > 442 MPH time was clocked either two ways or two times as conditions
> > permitted, on accurate equipment ( and I believe it was ), would Al Teague
> > and Bill Summers and Don Vesco recognize his run as a wheel driven record?
> > Would Andy Green ?
> > If the racers on Lake Gairdner, Australia this March turn in some
> > incredible, faster than existing record, times will the 200 MPH Club,
> > SCTA/BNI and USFRA recognize those times or more importantly will their
> > amateur land-speed racing peers in the USA?
> > That's my quarters worth.
> > Wes Potter ... speaking only as an involved watcher of land speed racing for
> > over fifty years.
> > ----------
> > > From: Malcolm Pittwood <MPittwood@compuserve.com>
> > > To: "Land-speed@autox.team.net" <Land-speed@autox.team.net>
> > > Subject: On line chat topic
> > > Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 14:38:42 -0500
> > >
> > >Hi everyone,
> > >Due to the time difference with Britain I will not be able to join the 3 am
> > >chat with a working day to follow.
> > >Just to help the topic of BNI/SCTA/USFRA times for runs, working time in
> > >impound and FIM & FIA record attempts, heres by two pence worth.
> > >If your club or sanctioning body is not an affiliated body of the FIA or
> > >FIM then why worry what you call your records. To these two World
> > >governing bodies you are just running club events for "local" records -
> > >that may offend some of your organisers and many of the racers but that is
> > >how they are seen. Remember there is no differentiation by body style in
> > >their rules, only capacity divisions. Your 'local' record in the classes
> > >may be faster than the FIA or FIM listings but these two bodies will never
> > >ever acknowledge them as International/World records.
> > >On four wheels, as Mike Jenkins explained last week there is only one
> > >"World Record" - the Thrust SSC outright speed of 763.035 mph. On two
> > >wheels there are FIA World Records for ALL capacity classes for the
> > >variety of distances and duration records.
> > >ACCUS is one USA based FIM affiliated organisation as is USAC but I do not
> > >know if they have any input into anything other than individual ouright
> > >records. Perhaps someone could explain from your side of the pond why they
> > >are not at Bonneville ? The AMA is the USA motorcycle affiliated body and
> > >they seem to interact only with the "Land Speed Authority" organisation.
> > >Is that so ?
> > >The 'four hour maintenance working rule' in impound makes little sense to
> > >me, as the return run to achieve a record is the day following the first
> > >pass any way.
> > >The FIA 1 hour ruling and the FIM 2 hour ruling for 1 mile timed distances,
> > >is to ensure that the two runs occur in (almost) stable conditions on one
> > >day - much more difficult to do ? Because little work is allowed by either
> > >sanctioning body except general safety checks and maintenance on the
> > >vehicle between runs you do not need time to "rebuild the vehicle from the
> > >ground up".
> > >With strong comments expressed on the list I do not expect to see any
> > >changes in the way the USA do things in general at Bonneville meetings.
> > >Some US racers will dip deep into their pockets to get International
> > >(FIA/FIM) recognition because they can rightly be compared directly with
> > >the best of the past. Brits will come across to your US deserts to set
> > >World Records in their own events. Bonneville Speed Week will continue
> > >for another 50 years as a wonderful sporting event. Can anyone see this
> > >changing ?
> > >Have a good chat tonight.
> > >Malcolm Pittwood, Derby, England.
> > >
> > >
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