John & list,
A catch all phrase which includes all vehicles ever made is hard to draft.
Some cars have the firewall forward of where the fenders come off, some have
the firewall set back and on some you can't remove the fenders at all. Why
don't we just say where the fenders come off and leave the body shell, which
must remain of stock dimensions, is where you can modify going forward. The
problem with an Opel and like cars is the body is unit construction and the
fenders must remain in place. On the Alfa the fabricated firewall is at the
leading edge of the body shell. The length of the cowl to the leading edge
of the doors is approx. 3 - 4". So if we were to modify from the doors
forward the stock body would have been compromised and made illegal. The
basic line is the body must remain stock. Going back in history I would
think that the wording "...including the cowl..." came from Modified
Roadster. A MR is derived from a Fuel/Gas Roadster which is allowed to
change the contour of the cowl, i.e. '28 - '31 Ford, remove the cowl gas
tank, which continues into the next body class, MR.
The increased interest in CC & MS in recent years has brought to the front
this problem of a rulebook which is built on a set of rules drafted for Ford
roadsters for the main part and has it's origins dating back to post WWII. I
don't want to rewrite wholesale changes into the rulebook which may obsolete
a current vehicle. I believe that working with the entrants to iron out
opinions on interpetation is a better method. I have requested from MS class
entrants for suggestions to make the rules more polished, along the lines of
F/G roadsters, but have received very little response. Complaints after the
race has started, threats of protest and pending law suits are more the
norm.
As you can see a liberal rulebook for an electic mix of vehicles is what we
must deal with. I believe that the committee chairpersons can point a
entrant in the correct direction. One thing we don't want to do is quench
innovation. We certaintly don't want to build someone's car for them but,
there are areas where the tech people can help.
I hope this little novel helps some.
Dan W
----- Original Message -----
From: John Beckett <landspeedracer@email.msn.com>
To: Dan Warner <dwarner@electrorent.com>
Cc: <land-speed@autox.team.net>
Sent: Monday, February 14, 2000 9:10 AM
Subject: Re: /MS rules
> Dan
>
> OK, now that were on this topic. Some clarification for /MS & /CC. The '00
> rule book says "Streamling ahead of an including the cowl..." doesn't
> mention firewalls at all? Since we are allowed to "streamline" the cowl
area
> would'nt that mean original from the doors back?
>
> John Beckett, LSR #79
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dan Warner" <dwarner@electrorent.com>
> To: "John Beckett" <landspeedracer@email.msn.com>
> Cc: <land-speed@autox.team.net>
> Sent: Monday, February 14, 2000 10:45 AM
> Subject: Re: /MS rules
>
>
> > The body must remain stock from the FIREWALL back. Doors back is too
far,
> > can't mod the cowl area. Each vehicle is different though, the doors
might
> > be at the firewall on the 924. I don't pretend to know every car ever
> made,
> > that's why I need documentation in impound.
> >
> > Dan W
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: John Beckett <landspeedracer@email.msn.com>
> > To: George Mitchell <americanpartner@yahoo.com>; Dan Warner
> > <dwarner@electrorent.com>
> > Cc: <land-speed@autox.team.net>
> > Sent: Monday, February 14, 2000 7:12 AM
> > Subject: /MS rules
> >
> >
> > > George
> > >
> > > I believe its like /CC. You can modify the front end in /MS as long as
> the
> > > body is original from the doors back. Might as well stretch it to 130"
> > > WB...to improve handling, and chop the top...to improve frontal area,
> > while
> > > your at it.
> > >
> > > John Beckett, LSR #79
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "George Mitchell" <americanpartner@yahoo.com>
> > > To: "Keith Turk" <kturk@ala.net>; "Dan Warner"
> <dwarner@electrorent.com>;
> > > "Richard Kensicki" <richk@sparta-junction.com>
> > > Cc: <land-speed@autox.team.net>
> > > Sent: Monday, February 14, 2000 9:54 AM
> > > Subject: Re: Thanks for Opel GT Input
> > >
> > >
> > > > Hey list,
> > > > It sounds like I picked the right class. Lots of
> > > > competition. Still waiting on the rule book but...
> > > > The Porsche body that I am building is a '78. It has
> > > > what can only be described as sort of a "dirty" nose
> > > > there is a plastic bumper out there and a lower
> > > > valance that would surely put air underneath the car
> > > > at speed.
> > > > I could update the front with parts that I have for
> > > > the later Euro Turbo car ('85) which has a hidden
> > > > bumper and more of a scoopped or staight appearance
> > > > (think Nascar front end).
> > > > With the liberal aero rules in M/S would this
> > > > "updating" be legal? This would be easier for me and
> > > > the modification would be quick and have somewhat
> > > > proven aero.
> > > > George in DC
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- Keith Turk <kturk@ala.net> wrote:
> > > > > Yep Dan..... John Rains didn't ruin D/B/Galt.... he
> > > > > simply moved the record
> > > > > out of my pocket book.... I don't have to have his
> > > > > car to go that fast... I
> > > > > got to have his MOTOR.... and sans that.... Might as
> > > > > well build a MS... and
> > > > > Have at it... I am not building a Berkley... I am
> > > > > going to build a
> > > > > Bugeye... little bigger but not enough that a little
> > > > > HP won't make up for
> > > > > it....
> > > > >
> > > > > Look at Doug Odom.... his Bugeye just got in the Two
> > > > > Club....K
> > > > >
> > > > > ----------
> > > > > > From: Dan Warner <dwarner@electrorent.com>
> > > > > > To: Richard Kensicki <richk@sparta-junction.com>
> > > > > > Cc: land-speed@autox.team.net
> > > > > > Subject: Re: Thanks for Opel GT Input
> > > > > > Date: Monday, February 14, 2000 7:15 AM
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Richard,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The answer to your question re: the Benham & Carr
> > > > > Berkley on the 2000
> > > > > > rulebook cover is easy. The M/S class is
> > > > > currently/probably the class
> > > > > most
> > > > > > open for innovation. A small base vehicle which
> > > > > was sold as a sports car,
> > > > > > 130" wb, any frame, and liberal aero make for some
> > > > > strange bed fellows.
> > > > > > Engine size aside, as long as an entrant can
> > > > > provide documentation as to
> > > > > the
> > > > > > availability of the base car and the stock
> > > > > dimensions so that impound can
> > > > > > verify the legality of the car, that would make
> > > > > Leonard Carr's car (no
> > > > > pun
> > > > > > intended) one of the best choices for class. As in
> > > > > the past the uproar
> > > > > that
> > > > > > this vehicle has destroyed the class "everyone has
> > > > > to have one" is in the
> > > > > > wind. When Ron Benham first brought out his Monza
> > > > > then the Crosley that
> > > > > Earl
> > > > > > Wooden currently runs the cry was the same. As you
> > > > > can see other racers
> > > > > have
> > > > > > found ways to compete and set records in various
> > > > > classes against these
> > > > > cars
> > > > > > without using the body dujour.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > What are your questions regarding the legality of
> > > > > the Berkley? Maybe I
> > > > > can
> > > > > > help.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Dan W
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: Richard Kensicki <richk@sparta-junction.com>
> > > > > > To: <land-speed@autox.team.net>
> > > > > > Sent: Friday, February 11, 2000 4:26 PM
> > > > > > Subject: Thanks for Opel GT Input
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks for all the replies about a possible Opel
> > > > > GT for the mile. Are
> > > > > > > there any pictures of Bill Ward's Opel on line?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I keep rereading the rule book section for
> > > > > modified sports and then
> > > > > look
> > > > > > > at the rule book cover (2000 edition) and say
> > > > > (not out loud) how does
> > > > > > > that car run as B modified sports? I must be too
> > > > > legalistic.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Rich
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
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