Hey Keith
You running carbs or fuel injection?
JB
At 09:22 AM 4/16/99 -0700, Keith Turk wrote:
>Okay John and I have talked about this for a while.. and I keep lowering my
>target RPM....
>
>My Goal obviously is to go as fast as this little girl will go... Now do I
>care if the motor comes home in one piece.... hmmm YES ..... ( or at least
>assembled pieces)
>
>The my personal Goal of this list was to gain insight... I evaluate
>everyone's information and come up with my own decisions.... which has
>worked as a way of dealing with things that are new to me....
>
>I am going to listen to everyone and set it up to run in the 7500-8000
>range and gear for that... but I am going to bring the gears and tires both
>ways to compensate for what the car actually does on the track at Maxton
>and the salt
>and hopefully at Maxton we can gain the insight necessary to set it up for
>the salt... at least semi correctly for this combination..
>
>It is a fascinating topic for me and I thank each of you for your
>responses..
>
>Keith
>----------
>> From: John Beckett <johnbeck@blueridge.cc.nc.us>
>> To: kturk@ala.net
>> Cc: land-speed@autox.team.net
>> Subject: Re: Salt & RPMs
>> Date: Thursday, April 15, 1999 7:02 AM
>>
>> Keith,
>>
>> I guess the max RPM I have ever run a Bonneville is 8,000. Have made
>lots
>> of runs in the 7,800 range with lots of success. Ran 8,200 once at
>Maxton,
>> and everything seemed to live OK, but no gain in speed.
>> My recomendation is not to gear it for more than 8,000 RPM, that way you
>> will be able to enjoy it for many runs to come.
>>
>> John
>>
>>
>> At 06:54 AM 4/15/99 -0400, Joseph Timney wrote:
>> >Keith,
>> >I have to agree with Tom, that high of RPM will cost you more than you
>> will gain. We have drag raced that combination in the past and would not
>> run alumunium rods unless I know exactly how many runs were on the rods
>and
>> at what conditions the motor saw...how high was it reved, how often, etc.
>> The other thing is valve springs. We ran a 287 inch combo, 8700 off the
>> line, 9200 shift point and 9700 in the lights. It ran on the record
>but...
>> broken valve springs, spanned rocker arms, cracked piston lands, etc (
>read
>> that total motor trauma ). Why not use a set of Crower steels ( nice rods
>> and reasonable priced ) and keep the r's down. Wearing a motor out is a
>> financially rewarding thing!
>> >
>> >>>> "Thomas E. Bryant" <saltracer@awwwsome.com> 04/14 5:22 PM >>>
>> >>From the description of your motor, I still stand by my RPM comments.
>> Sounds
>> >very similar to the motor I ran a few years back. I ran Crane heads that
>were
>> >excessively milled to get a 52 cc. chamber. I am now running Chev
>Bow-Tie
>> Heads
>> >that are
>> >angle milled to the max, trying to maintain the 12.5:1 compression
>ratio
>> I was
>> >running with the other heads. My pistons regularly contact the heads
>very
>> >lightly. I am now using steel rods, but in the early eighties, Terry
>Elledge
>> >was helping me with my motors. He built one that had approximately
>13.5:1,
>> >using Bill Miller aluminum rods. The third pull (7700 RPM) on the dyno
>put #1
>> >rod on the floor. All the pistons were "hitting" the heads. As a Nascar
>> engine
>> >builder, he normally use the steel rods, so I think he miscalculated the
>> amount
>> >of stretch.
>> >
>> >Just remember that the 1/4 mile top RPM is for a couple of seconds, much
>> >different than at the Salt. What is a problem at 9000 may not be at
>8000.
>> I am
>> >a firm believer in "the combination". Each racer has to find what works
>for
>> >him. It is kind of like cooking, two cooks can use the same recipe, but
>the
>> >results may be much different!
>> >Tom
>> >
>> >Keith Turk wrote:
>> >
>> >> The Heads on the motor are old 292 castings... the angle plug
>things...they
>> >> were done by Hogan there in California somewhere... they have an
>intake
>> >> port size of 2.250 X 1 something... with about .200 off the surface...
>the
>> >> block is not o-ringed..
>> >> and the crank is a 302 crank turned down to a 2.90 Stroke.... it has
>been
>> >> exceptionally well balanced and is set up with a set of Aluminum Super
>> >> Rods.. which are 5.75 inches... The pistons are TRW Duffies that have
>been
>> >> worked a little to much in my opinion.. that was the comment on the
>ring
>> >> land... they are gas ported and with the Heads being shaved as much as
>they
>> >> are... well you can start to see my concerns...
>> >>
>> >> It started life as a Darrin Davis Comp eliminator motor and was spun
>up to
>> >> 10,500 Rpm and left the line at 7500.... My thoughts right now are
>that our
>> >> hero the original builder didn't take into account Rod Stretch.. and
>that
>> >> is why the pistons touched the heads and the valves had mated with the
>> >> pistons.... none of this is hurt particularly... they had just
>touched..
>> >> and closed the top land a tick. maybe 2 thousands.... or so..
>> >>
>> >> Lift on the cam is another factor here.... I haven't mic'ed it yet but
>I
>> >> believe it to be around .650 total..
>> >> Complete Roller set up...
>> >>
>> >> it has a jesel belt drive
>> >>
>> >> Well that is what I have to work with.... I am still thinking the
>spare 355
>> >> cu in 10:1 motor is going to the salt... at least I know it will live
>out
>> >> there..... and we can still enjoy the time of our lives....
>> >>
>> >> Keith
>> >> ----------
>> >> > From: Thomas E. Bryant <saltracer@awwwsome.com>
>> >> > To: kturk@ala.net
>> >> > Cc: Land Speed <land-speed@autox.team.net>
>> >> > Subject: Re: Salt & RPMs
>> >> > Date: Wednesday, April 14, 1999 11:23 AM
>> >> >
>> >> > It depends on what you have in the motor, but I have found that
>lower Rs
>> >> work
>> >> > better.
>> >> > At the higher RPMs, the breathing efficiency goes downhill. We used
>to
>> >> run in
>> >> > the low 8000s, but have found that the upper 7000 range works better
>for
>> >> us. It
>> >> > is also a little easier on the motor. But again it depends on the
>power
>> >> curve.
>> >> > Tom
>> >> >
>> >> > Keith Turk wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > > Well said.. and of course he is my first choice also... I am
>trying to
>> >> be
>> >> > > semi neutral here.... This is a ton of work and worth while... If
>Al is
>> >> the
>> >> > > pick... then I would get us going in the right direction....But
>let's
>> >> hang
>> >> > > out a bit and see what everyone thinks....
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Hey by the way the motor is coming along just fine.... the pistons
>top
>> >> ring
>> >> > > land is a little closer to the top then I would want.... but I am
>going
>> >> to
>> >> > > run it on the first and see what we have to work with.... oughta
>be an
>> >> > > absolute blast to run that kinda RPM..... I am going to set the
>gears
>> >> to
>> >> > > take me through the trap at around 8800Rpm... well below it's
>normal
>> >> max on
>> >> > > a drag strip.... but what I consider a livable RPM for the
>Salt....
>> >> Keith
>> >> > >
>> >> > > ----------
>> >> > > > From: Thomas E. Bryant <saltracer@awwwsome.com>
>> >> > > > To: John Beckett <johnbeck@blueridge.cc.nc.us>
>> >> > > > Cc: Land Speed <land-speed@autox.team.net>; Keith Turk
>> >> <kturk@ala.net>
>> >> > > > Subject: Re: Street Rodding and IMHOF
>> >> > > > Date: Wednesday, April 14, 1999 7:59 AM
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > Hi John & Fellow LSR Supporters,
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > I have been reading the chatter about the Hall of Fame
>considerations
>> >> and
>> >> > > would
>> >> > > > like to put in my two cents worth.
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > I agree with you John when you put Al Teague at the top of the
>list.
>> >> In
>> >> > > my view
>> >> > > > there is a great deal more to being qualified for "Special
>> >> Recognition"
>> >> > > than going
>> >> > > > fast. I have known many people with fast cars. Bob Summers, Al
>> >> Teague,
>> >> > > Rick & Don
>> >> > > > Vesco, Bruce Geisler, and others are among those I can call
>"fast
>> >> > > friends", (no pun
>> >> > > > intended).
>> >> > > > All of these mention have a quality that I consider important.
>They
>> >> not
>> >> > > only went
>> >> > > > fast, but they designed and built the cars that carried them to
>those
>> >> > > speeds. Many
>> >> > > > have set records, gain the publicity and recognition by laying
>down
>> >> the
>> >> > > money and
>> >> > > > having the guts to sit behind the wheel, but this is not what we
>are
>> >> > > about.
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > I have known Al and followed his progress since he first arrived
>on
>> >> the
>> >> > > Salt. Al
>> >> > > > has risen to the top of the heap with almost no sponsorship, in
>a car
>> >> he
>> >> > > actually
>> >> > > > built with his own hands, drove it repeatedly at unimaginable
>speeds,
>> >> and
>> >> > > exhibits
>> >> > > > a humility that is enviable. To me, he is truly the hero of our
>> >> sport.
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > > Tom Bryant, 216 D/CC - El Mirage, Muroc, Bonneville
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > >
>> >> > > >
>> >> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
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