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That was my thought, too.Gary
On Sunday, August 13, 2023 at 12:32:36 PM CDT, Michael Salter <michaels=
alter@gmail.com> wrote: =20
=20
Re: I think the fact Laycock went from steel rings on the operating piston=
s to O-rings is telling.=C2=A0I would think that that was a cost cutting me=
asure.=C2=A0
On Sat., Aug. 12, 2023, 7:34 p.m. Bob Spidell via Healeys, <healeys@autox.t=
eam.net> wrote:
I think the fact Laycock went from steel rings on the operating pistons t=
o O-rings is telling. Both will wear, but the steel rings will score the cy=
linder.
=20
=20
On 8/12/2023 9:40 AM, Hank Leach wrote:
=20
Bob-good point.=C2=A0 I just got a set of springs from Moss (from OD Spare=
s in UK, I imagine). The cost was $99 or about $12/spring which in the scop=
e of things is really not relevant. Holding that clutch in tight contact to=
the brake ring is paramount and just imagine the number of miles in direct=
drive that the car has experienced...many at high RPM. The other side of t=
he brake for overdrive position is the "lazy side" as the operating pistons=
under hydraulic pressure have plenty of clout driving mostly steady RPMs. =
Yes, springs wear out.=20
I place them on the bench and line up the lengths. They should measure 4-=
1/2" for the long springs and 4-1/4" for the short ones but invariably ther=
e is differences in the resting length. After 50+ years of pushing you woul=
d tend to get tired. When in overdrive, the springs are greatly depressed.=
=C2=A0 That is asking a lot for spiral metal to accomplish. So, yes they ma=
y look good, but have poor stamina-oops, I just describe all of us. Hank
=20
=20
-----------------------------------------
From: "Bob Spidell"=20
To: healeys@autox.team.net
Cc:=20
Sent: Friday August 11 2023 9:19:34PM
Subject: Re: [Healeys] Laycock overdrive
=20
re: "... The health of the 8 springs that keep the unit in direct drive
is important to keep the clutch from slipping...."
=20
I believe the shop manual admonishes owners to replace these when
overhauling the unit, even if the old ones look and feel fine (some say
not so). I think my old ones are in a box on a shelf somewhere if
anybody wants them.
=20
Note the O/D pump is a positive displacement pump that will continue to
produce pressure--driven by the full power of the engine--unless there
is a pressure relief mechanism.
=20
=20
On 8/11/2023 10:34 AM, Hank Leach via Healeys wrote:
> Guys-this is a very lively topic and one of sometimes great mystery
> and confusion.=C2=A0 The unit is complex but the end result is working w=
ell
> or not functioning at all.
>
> On the subject of pressure required to operate the shift into
> overdrive there are many schools of thought. Some people replace or
> stretch springs or add washers to increase the pressure needed. The
> health of the 8 springs that keep the unit in direct drive is
> important to keep the clutch from slipping.=C2=A0 The pressure supplied =
to
> overcome the strength of these 8 spring , and effect overdrive, relies
> on adequate hydraulic pressure. The change from direct to overdrive
> needs to be smooth, not harsh, and if pressures are high the unit will
> snap into and out of OD rather than the smooth interchange we are used
> to while driving.
>
> When applied to the Austin Healey 100, the Laycock overdrive was
> initially a 32% reduction unit. It was soon found out in these early
> Warwick cars that 32% was too much reduction.=C2=A0 DHMC swapped units
> three times in the original DMH tour car until they finally found a
> combination that produced the smooth shift and complimentary gearing
> desired.
>
> It is difficult, today, to find any information on this original 32%
> gearbox, however if you examine the booklet (attached) supplied by
> Laycock for the early cars, you will notice that the casting allowed
> for a large accumulator piston (seen on p6 in brochure). After some
> research and modified engineering, the company came up with this alloy
> "sleeve" called the piston housing (photo) which partially filled the
> chamber of the original large accumulator casting and allowed for a
> smaller accumulator piston that we see in all the later 28% reduction
> units. That size piston, in proper condition, produced from 350-450
> lbs of needed hydraulic pressure to overcome the springs influence.
>
> I'm confident that the remark made by Geoff Healey in his writings
> about the early transmissions "harsh shifting" revolved around this
> huge accumulator piston producing too much pressure. Additionally,
> there were three various accumulator springs supplied which adjusted
> the pressure. The early boxes produced about 350lbs and the later
> about 450.
>
> Today, Overdrive Spares supplies that sleeve housing with only one
> rubber O-ring as it is basically a filler part and not under extreme
> pressure. The accumulator piston within is under that pressure. They
> supply a modified piston using O-ring technology. So, it is not
> unusual to get good pressures over the normal 450 lbs required. If it
> works well don't fix it.=C2=A0 The only concern is if the pressure does =
not
> release when overdrive is not called for. A clean unit, with proper
> 30W oil, will allow that to happen. All this some old theory and
> history to ponder. Hank
=20
=20
_______________________________________________
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys http://autox.team.net/archiv=
e/healeys
Healeys@autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys
lter@gmail.com
_______________________________________________
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys http://autox.team.net/archiv=
e/healeys
Healeys@autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys
n@aol.com
=20
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<html><head></head><body><div class=3D"ydpe8a884a1yahoo-style-wrap" style=
=3D"font-family:Comic Sans MS, sans-serif;font-size:16px;"><div></div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">That was my thought, too.</d=
iv><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">Gary</div><div><br></div>
=20
</div><div id=3D"ydp6aa59758yahoo_quoted_2386916458" class=3D"ydp6a=
a59758yahoo_quoted">
<div style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, s=
ans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;">
=20
<div>
On Sunday, August 13, 2023 at 12:32:36 PM CDT, Michael =
Salter <michaelsalter@gmail.com> wrote:
</div>
<div><br></div>
<div><br></div>
<div><div id=3D"ydp6aa59758yiv0041674271"><div><div><div>Re=
: <span style=3D"font-size:12.8px;">I think the fact Laycock went from stee=
l rings on the operating pistons to O-rings is telling. </span></div><=
div>I would think that that was a cost cutting measure. <span style=3D=
"font-size:12.8px;"><br clear=3D"none"></span></div><div><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:12.8px;"><br clear=3D"none"></span></div><div><span style=3D"font-si=
ze:12.8px;"><br clear=3D"none"></span><br clear=3D"none"><div class=3D"ydp6=
aa59758yiv0041674271gmail_quote"><div id=3D"ydp6aa59758yiv0041674271yqt0417=
3" class=3D"ydp6aa59758yiv0041674271yqt5338644676"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=
=3D"ydp6aa59758yiv0041674271gmail_attr">On Sat., Aug. 12, 2023, 7:34 p.m. B=
ob Spidell via Healeys, <<a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.=
team.net" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">healeys@autox.team.net</a>>=
wrote:<br clear=3D"none"></div><blockquote style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;bord=
er-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;" class=3D"ydp6aa59758yiv0041674271=
gmail_quote">
=20
=20
=20
<div>
I think the fact Laycock went from steel rings on the operating
pistons to O-rings is telling. Both will wear, but the steel rings
will score the cylinder.<br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
<div>On 8/12/2023 9:40 AM, Hank Leach wrote:<br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
=20
Bob-good point. I just got a set of springs from Moss (from OD
Spares in UK, I imagine). The cost was $99 or about $12/spring
which in the scope of things is really not relevant. Holding that
clutch in tight contact to the brake ring is paramount and just
imagine the number of miles in direct drive that the car has
experienced...many at high RPM. The other side of the brake for
overdrive position is the "lazy side" as the operating pistons
under hydraulic pressure have plenty of clout driving mostly
steady RPMs. Yes, springs wear out.
<div><br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div>I place them on the bench and line up the lengths. They
should measure 4-1/2" for the long springs and 4-1/4" for the
short ones but invariably there is differences in the resting
length. After 50+ years of pushing you would tend to get tired.
When in overdrive, the springs are greatly depressed. That is
asking a lot for spiral metal to accomplish. So, yes they may
look good, but have poor stamina-oops, I just describe all of
us. Hank<br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
<p>-----------------------------------------</p>
From: "Bob Spidell" <u></u><br clear=3D"none">
To: <a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net"; rel=
=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">healeys@autox.team.net</a><br clear=3D"none=
">
Cc: <br clear=3D"none">
Sent: Friday August 11 2023 9:19:34PM<br clear=3D"none">
Subject: Re: [Healeys] Laycock overdrive<br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
re: "... The health of the 8 springs that keep the unit in
direct
drive<br clear=3D"none">
is important to keep the clutch from slipping...."<br clear=3D"no=
ne">
<br clear=3D"none">
I believe the shop manual admonishes owners to replace these
when<br clear=3D"none">
overhauling the unit, even if the old ones look and feel fine
(some
say<br clear=3D"none">
not so). I think my old ones are in a box on a shelf somewhere
if<br clear=3D"none">
anybody wants them.<br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
Note the O/D pump is a positive displacement pump that will
continue to<br clear=3D"none">
produce pressure--driven by the full power of the
engine--unless
there<br clear=3D"none">
is a pressure relief mechanism.<br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
On 8/11/2023 10:34 AM, Hank Leach via Healeys wrote:<br clear=3D"=
none">
> Guys-this is a very lively topic and one of sometimes
great
mystery<br clear=3D"none">
> and confusion. The unit is complex but the end result =
is
working well<br clear=3D"none">
> or not functioning at all.<br clear=3D"none">
><br clear=3D"none">
> On the subject of pressure required to operate the shift
into<br clear=3D"none">
> overdrive there are many schools of thought. Some people
replace or<br clear=3D"none">
> stretch springs or add washers to increase the pressure
needed. The<br clear=3D"none">
> health of the 8 springs that keep the unit in direct
drive
is<br clear=3D"none">
> important to keep the clutch from slipping. The pressu=
re
supplied to<br clear=3D"none">
> overcome the strength of these 8 spring , and effect
overdrive, relies<br clear=3D"none">
> on adequate hydraulic pressure. The change from direct to
overdrive<br clear=3D"none">
> needs to be smooth, not harsh, and if pressures are high
the
unit will<br clear=3D"none">
> snap into and out of OD rather than the smooth
interchange we
are used<br clear=3D"none">
> to while driving.<br clear=3D"none">
><br clear=3D"none">
> When applied to the Austin Healey 100, the Laycock
overdrive
was<br clear=3D"none">
> initially a 32% reduction unit. It was soon found out in
these
early<br clear=3D"none">
> Warwick cars that 32% was too much reduction. DHMC
swapped units<br clear=3D"none">
> three times in the original DMH tour car until they
finally
found a<br clear=3D"none">
> combination that produced the smooth shift and
complimentary
gearing<br clear=3D"none">
> desired.<br clear=3D"none">
><br clear=3D"none">
> It is difficult, today, to find any information on this
original 32%<br clear=3D"none">
> gearbox, however if you examine the booklet (attached)
supplied by<br clear=3D"none">
> Laycock for the early cars, you will notice that the
casting
allowed<br clear=3D"none">
> for a large accumulator piston (seen on p6 in brochure).
After
some<br clear=3D"none">
> research and modified engineering, the company came up
with
this alloy<br clear=3D"none">
> "sleeve" called the piston housing (photo) which
partially
filled the<br clear=3D"none">
> chamber of the original large accumulator casting and
allowed
for a<br clear=3D"none">
> smaller accumulator piston that we see in all the later
28%
reduction<br clear=3D"none">
> units. That size piston, in proper condition, produced
from
350-450<br clear=3D"none">
> lbs of needed hydraulic pressure to overcome the springs
influence.<br clear=3D"none">
><br clear=3D"none">
> I'm confident that the remark made by Geoff Healey in his
writings<br clear=3D"none">
> about the early transmissions "harsh shifting" revolved
around
this<br clear=3D"none">
> huge accumulator piston producing too much pressure.
Additionally,<br clear=3D"none">
> there were three various accumulator springs supplied
which
adjusted<br clear=3D"none">
> the pressure. The early boxes produced about 350lbs and
the
later<br clear=3D"none">
> about 450.<br clear=3D"none">
><br clear=3D"none">
> Today, Overdrive Spares supplies that sleeve housing with
only
one<br clear=3D"none">
> rubber O-ring as it is basically a filler part and not
under
extreme<br clear=3D"none">
> pressure. The accumulator piston within is under that
pressure. They<br clear=3D"none">
> supply a modified piston using O-ring technology. So, it
is
not<br clear=3D"none">
> unusual to get good pressures over the normal 450 lbs
required. If it<br clear=3D"none">
> works well don't fix it. The only concern is if the
pressure does not<br clear=3D"none">
> release when overdrive is not called for. A clean unit,
with
proper<br clear=3D"none">
> 30W oil, will allow that to happen. All this some old
theory
and<br clear=3D"none">
> history to ponder. Hank<u></u><br clear=3D"none">
</div>
</blockquote>
<br clear=3D"none">
</div>
_______________________________________________<br clear=3D"none">
rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br =
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</blockquote></div></div></div></div>
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_______________________________________________
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys
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