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HI SIMON, HANK HERE, AND THAT'S ANOTHER TALE OF WOE. BOB MAKES SOME=0AGO=
OD POINTS AND MENTIONS THE ACCUMULATOR. YOU MENTIONED A "BAD BATCH"=0AOF=
ACCUMULATORS. DEFINITELY, IF THE ACCUMULATOR DOES NOT RELEASE IT=0AWILL=
CONTINUE TO "PUMP" (HOLD PRESSURE) HYDRAULIC OIL AS THE "PUMP" IS=0ATHE=
LITTLE WHEEL IN CONTACT WITH THE MAINSHAFT CAM, CONSTANTLY GOING=0AUP A=
ND DOWN creating pressure. At the engineered max about 400-500PSI=0Asome=
thing has to release, or it continues to pump pressure beyond what=0Ais=
needed to overcome the 8 springs resistance which push the clutch=0Aint=
o direct drive.=0AI'm a stickler for using original parts, if nothing is=
wrong with=0Athem. (I'm using the steel piston rings, not O rings) Repl=
acement=0Aitems always scare me (are they an exact match?). I think you=
=0Aexperienced that issue when you replaced the transmission clutch=0Apl=
ate.=0AI do drill out the tiny hole with a 1MM bit to make room for dirt=
=0Awhich could be larger than that tiny hole. It does not hurt the=0Aope=
ration but, yes it can drain a little faster (about 1/2 sec.). If=0Athat=
whole passage is clean, proper size ball and spring and rod not=0Abent,=
it functions as a release valve when lowered (by lever action=0Afrom ar=
m).=0AThen the other drain is as Bob describes, when the accumulator mov=
es=0Aaway from the drilling in the bore. This drilling also depends on a=
n=0Aannular groove (passage in the mainshaft-be sure they are clear) to=
=0Acarry oil. These must also be squeaky clean. That huge spring inside=
=0Athe accumulator controls the release of massive hydraulic pressure. I=
t=0Ais important to use a test gauge of about 800PSI when testing the=0A=
system...just in case you are not releasing pressure.=0AThe "trouble sho=
oting guide" in the workshop manual only addresses=0Alack of pressure re=
lease to dirt, electrics or damaged parts. I'm=0Aafraid its yet another=
trip back to OD Spares. While its out, look=0Acarefully at the tail of=
your mainshaft and insure it has clear=0Apassages. A piece of SS wire w=
ill check openings. Dirt is the main=0Aculprit in ODs followed by wear,=
if electrics are ok.=0A=0A=09-----------------------------------------F=
rom: "Bob Spidell" =0ATo: healeys@autox.team.net=0ACc: =0ASent: Saturday=
June 18 2022 6:33:36AM=0ASubject: Re: [Healeys] OD still not working!=
=0A=0A Disclaimer: I'm not an O/D expert, having rebuilt exactly one wit=
h=0Areasonable success, but I can throw guesses around.=0A=0A I think _s=
omething_ with the operating valve and its lifting rod=0A(bent?), but th=
ere's couple theoretical causes:=0A=0A - Too much wear on the cone clutc=
h, causing it to stick in the brake=0Aring, but the guys at ODSpares wou=
ld surely have noticed and=0Areplaced/relined the clutch, no?=0A=0A - So=
mething wrong with the operating pistons (one or both), not=0Aallowing t=
hem to recede in their bores when pressure is relieved=0A(O-ring or stee=
l rings?)=0A=0A I don't know enough about the intricacies of the interna=
l=0Apassageways, but I do know the accumulator regulates pressure pretty=
=0Asimply: when the spring is compressed far enough a drain hole is=0Aun=
covered (not unlike how engine oil pressure is limited). If that=0Arelie=
f hole was somehow blocked pressure would increase until=0Asomething gav=
e (like your gauge).=0A=0A An owner had a similar problem, reported on a=
nother forum. Someone=0Asuggested the unidirectional clutch getting stuc=
k, but I can't wrap my=0Ahead around that one (I think that would cause=
issues on overrun,=0Apossibly damaging the O/D).=0A=0A So, the unit wor=
ks fine on the test rig, but locks up first time you=0Aengage it and sta=
ys there? May be a clue in there somewhere but, so=0Afar, I'm coming up=
empty.=0A=0A BTW, did you use the newer accumulator type, with an 0-rin=
g instead=0Aof steel rings?=0A=0AOn 6/18/2022 3:17 AM, simon.lachlan@ale=
xarevel.plus.com wrote:=0A=0A=09This saga started months ago and you may=
remember the case and the=0Avarious suggestions made at the time. I=E2=
=80=99ve been away and thus unable=0Ato get back to the problem=E2=80=A6=
. =0A=0A=09The background was that the thing would go into OD but not co=
me out.=0AAnd, after many vicissitudes=E2=80=A6removing box and OD in or=
der to drive=0Ait up north 3(!) times, it is still playing up. =0A=0A=09=
I shall try to give all the details and background but that will=0Aentai=
l my being as verbose as usual. =0A=0A=09* It is in a MKII BT7 centre sh=
ift.=0A =09* It has, yesterday, new 30 wt non-detergent. Plenty of it. C=
lean.=0A =09* Its electrics pass muster though I wish I could detect a f=
ault=0Athere so that I could fix it=E2=80=A6. If the ignition is _on_ an=
d the=0Aengine is _off_, when I put the stick in 4th and engage OD I get=
a=0Anice click and the little lever moves. When I move the lever across=
to=0A1st and 2nd, another click and slight movement on the little lever=
.=0AWhen I leave it in 4th but switch the OD _off,_ it stays engaged unt=
il=0AI depress the accelerator a little and then it drops out of OD. To=
my=0Amind at least, this indicates that the electrics are working. IS T=
HAT=0APRESUMPTION CORRECT? I tried it with a spare, rebuilt, relay but n=
o=0Adice.=0A =09* There is nothing in the little hole and the ball seats=
nicely. All=0Anew parts in there.=0A =09* The lever is free to move whe=
n the ignition is off ie nothing in=0Athere is slowing the lever=E2=80=
=99s freedom to move as pulled by the=0Asolenoid.=0A=0A=09I have a (new)=
gauge and it goes up to 500+ psi when in 3rd or 4th=0Aand stays there u=
ntil I engage the OD. Pressure drops momentarily then=0Areturns to 500+.=
All well and good. But it won=E2=80=99t come out=E2=80=A6. =0A=0A=09My=
feeling, going somewhat against received/informed advice, was that=0A=
=E2=80=9Csomething was stuck inside and not releasing=E2=80=9D. This was=
borne out=0Awhen, with the back wheels off the ground, I was trying to=
find out=0Awhat was going wrong=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6the gauge was in and I=
was watching it. Into=0AOD=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6.the usual click plus a dif=
ferent sort of noise/clunk and a=0Adistinct jerk. The gauge went off the=
scale=E2=80=A6.needle all the way=0Around and jammed on the reverse sid=
e of zero where it remained; gauge=0Adestroyed. The gasket between the s=
olenoid/operating lever casing and=0Athe accumulator area ruptured and o=
il started to come out. Fairly=0Abriskly. So that was a complete disaste=
r. =0A=0A=09I rang up ODSpares, for the 400th time, and Dave said that t=
he=0Aaccumulator =E2=80=93 brand new, fitted by them - must have jammed.=
He, very=0Areasonably I thought, said that if I brought the box and OD=
up=0A_again(!)_, he=E2=80=99d fit on a complete new unit. So, I did and=
he did. I=0Aimagine that he fitted a casing with all new bits where nee=
ded. He=0Aruns them on a rig for 8 hours before letting them leave the=
=0Ashop=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6 =0A=0A=09Anyhow, I stuck the box etc back in=
=E2=80=93 I=E2=80=99m getting quite good at=0Athat now =E2=80=93 and ha=
d high hopes. But, no good. The needle goes up to=0A500+ and stays there=
until I move it in and out of OD by moving the=0Astick left to right wi=
th the ignition on and the engine off. =0A=0A=09Logically, if logic appl=
ies to an OD, one might suppose EITHER that=0Athere is a batch of dud ac=
cumulators out there OR that there is some=0Aexternal factor that I=E2=
=80=99ve missed which has been lurking undetected=0Aall the while?!? BUT=
, that would not have made the accumulator jam?? =0A=0A=09Is it possible=
that there is something extraneous that could cause=0Athe electrics to=
play up only when the engine is running? =0A=0A=09Or, do ODs need a few=
miles on them before they start working=0Aproperly? Clutching at straws=
here!! =0A=0A=09One last thing, Dave agreed that there was still a pres=
sure issue. He=0Asuggested drilling out the little hole in the so-called=
=E2=80=9Cvalve =E2=80=93=0Aoperating=E2=80=9D (the rod under the ball b=
earing). That was to allow the=0Apressure to bleed off faster. He sent m=
e a new rod in case that=0Adidn=E2=80=99t work. Which it didn=E2=80=99t!=
The hole was just a tiny fraction=0Aless than 1mm and I drilled it out=
to 1.5mm. (Apparently, the factory=0Aused to drill them out for competi=
tion vehicles=E2=80=A6) =0A=0A=09Anyhow, I=E2=80=99m stuck. As is the OD=
!. And I=E2=80=99ve gone completely beyond=0Aany expertise I ever had wi=
th these damn devices. I thought I=0Aunderstood the electrics and I thou=
ght I could diagnose most pressure=0Arelated issues. But I=E2=80=99m get=
ting nowhere and it=E2=80=99s been going on for=0Amonths and months=E2=
=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6. =0A=0A=09Any ideas would be very welc=
ome. Exceeding welcome. =0A=0A=09Simon =0A=0A
--=_8c74fb9fc9e35242e9b11085f0e0d5e1
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<html><body>Hi Simon, Hank here, and that's another tale of woe. Bob mak=
es some good points and mentions the accumulator. You mentioned a "bad b=
atch" of accumulators. Definitely, if the accumulator does not release i=
t will continue to "pump" (hold pressure) hydraulic oil as the "pump" is=
the little wheel in contact with the mainshaft cam, <b>constantly going=
up and down</b> creating pressure. At the engineered max about 400-500P=
SI something has to release, or it continues to pump pressure beyond wha=
t is needed to overcome the 8 springs resistance which push the clutch i=
nto direct drive.<div><br></div><div>I'm a stickler for using original p=
arts, if nothing is wrong with them. (I'm using the steel piston rings,=
not O rings) Replacement items always scare me (are they an exact match=
?). I think you experienced that issue when you replaced the transmissio=
n clutch plate.</div><div><br></div><div>I do drill out the tiny hole wi=
th a 1MM bit to make room for dirt which could be larger than that tiny=
hole. It does not hurt the operation but, yes it can drain a little fas=
ter (about 1/2 sec.). If that whole passage is clean, proper size ball a=
nd spring and rod not bent, it functions as a release valve when lowered=
(by lever action from arm).</div><div><br></div><div>Then the other dra=
in is as Bob describes, when the accumulator moves away from the drillin=
g in the bore. This drilling also depends on an annular groove (pa=
ssage in the mainshaft-be sure they are clear) to carry oil. These must=
also be squeaky clean. That huge spring inside the accumulator controls=
the release of massive hydraulic pressure. It is important to use a tes=
t gauge of about 800PSI when testing the system...just in case you are n=
ot releasing pressure.</div><div><br></div><div>The "trouble shooting gu=
ide" in the workshop manual only addresses lack of pressure release to d=
irt, electrics or damaged parts. I'm afraid its yet another trip back to=
OD Spares. While its out, look carefully at the tail of your mainshaft=
and insure it has clear passages. A piece of SS wire will check opening=
s. Dirt is the main culprit in ODs followed by wear, if electrics are ok=
.</div><div><br><div class=3D"reply-new-signature"></div><p>------------=
-----------------------------</p>From: "Bob Spidell" <bspidell@comcast.n=
et><br>To: healeys@autox.team.net<br>Cc: <br>Sent: Saturday June 18 2022=
6:33:36AM<br>Subject: Re: [Healeys] OD still not working!<br><br>=0ADis=
claimer: I'm not an O/D expert, having rebuilt exactly one with=0Areason=
able success, but I can throw guesses around.<br><br>=0AI think <i>somet=
hing</i> with the operating valve and its lifting=0Arod (bent?), but the=
re's couple theoretical causes:<br><br>=0A- Too much wear on the cone cl=
utch, causing it to stick in the=0Abrake ring, but the guys at ODSpares=
would surely have noticed and=0Areplaced/relined the clutch, no?<br><br=
>=0A- Something wrong with the operating pistons (one or both), not=0Aal=
lowing them to recede in their bores when pressure is relieved=0A(O-ring=
or steel rings?)<br><br>=0AI don't know enough about the intricacies of=
the internal=0Apassageways, but I do know the accumulator regulates pre=
ssure=0Apretty simply: when the spring is compressed far enough a drain=
=0Ahole is uncovered (not unlike how engine oil pressure is limited).=0A=
If that relief hole was somehow blocked pressure would increase=0Auntil=
something gave (like your gauge).<br><br>=0AAn owner had a similar prob=
lem, reported on another forum. Someone=0Asuggested the unidirectional c=
lutch getting stuck, but I can't wrap=0Amy head around that one (I think=
that would cause issues on=0Aoverrun, possibly damaging the O/D).<br><b=
r>=0ASo, the unit works fine on the test rig, but locks up first time=0A=
you engage it and stays there? May be a clue in there somewhere=0Abut, s=
o far, I'm coming up empty.<br><br>=0ABTW, did you use the newer accumul=
ator type, with an 0-ring instead=0Aof steel rings?<br><br><br><br><div=
class=3D"moz-cite-prefix">On 6/18/2022 3:17 AM, <a class=3D"moz-txt-lin=
k-abbreviated">simon.lachlan@alexarevel.plus.com</a>=0Awrote:<br></div>=
=0A<blockquote>=0A<div class=3D"WordSection1">=0A<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=
This saga started months ago and you may=0Aremember the case and the var=
ious suggestions made at the time.=0AI=E2=80=99ve been away and thus una=
ble to get back to the problem=E2=80=A6.</p>=0A<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&n=
bsp;</p>=0A<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The background was that the thing woul=
d go=0Ainto OD but not come out. And, after many vicissitudes=E2=80=A6re=
moving box=0Aand OD in order to drive it up north 3(!) times, it is stil=
l=0Aplaying up.</p>=0A<p class=3D"MsoNormal"> </p>=0A<p class=3D"Ms=
oNormal">I shall try to give all the details and=0Abackground but that w=
ill entail my being as verbose as usual.</p>=0A<ol style=3D"margin-top:0=
cm;" type=3D"1" start=3D"1"><li class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"marg=
in-left:0cm;">It is in a MKII BT7=0Acentre shift.</li>=0A<li class=3D"Ms=
oListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:0cm;">It has, yesterday, new 30=0Aw=
t non-detergent. Plenty of it. Clean.</li>=0A<li class=3D"MsoListParagra=
ph" style=3D"margin-left:0cm;">Its electrics pass muster=0Athough I wish=
I could detect a fault there so that I could fix it=E2=80=A6.=0AIf the=
ignition is <i>on</i> and the engine is <i>off</i>, when I=0Aput the st=
ick in 4<sup>th</sup> and engage OD I get a nice click=0Aand the little=
lever moves. When I move the lever across to=0A1<sup>st</sup> and 2<sup=
>nd</sup>, another click and slight=0Amovement on the little lever. When=
I leave it in 4<sup>th</sup> but=0Aswitch the OD <i>off,</i> it stays e=
ngaged until I depress the=0Aaccelerator a little and then it drops out=
of OD. To my mind at=0Aleast, this indicates that the electrics are wor=
king. IS THAT=0APRESUMPTION CORRECT? I tried it with a spare, rebuilt, r=
elay but no=0Adice.</li>=0A<li class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margi=
n-left:0cm;">There is nothing in the=0Alittle hole and the ball seats ni=
cely. All new parts in there.</li>=0A<li class=3D"MsoListParagraph" styl=
e=3D"margin-left:0cm;">The lever is free to move=0Awhen the ignition is=
off ie nothing in there is slowing the lever=E2=80=99s=0Afreedom to mov=
e as pulled by the solenoid.</li>=0A</ol><p class=3D"MsoNormal"> </=
p>=0A<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I have a (new) gauge and it goes up to 500+=
=0Apsi when in 3<sup>rd</sup> or 4<sup>th</sup> and stays there until=0A=
I engage the OD. Pressure drops momentarily then returns to 500+.=0AAll=
well and good. But it won=E2=80=99t come out=E2=80=A6.</p>=0A<p class=
=3D"MsoNormal"> </p>=0A<p class=3D"MsoNormal">My feeling, going som=
ewhat against=0Areceived/informed advice, was that =E2=80=9Csomething wa=
s stuck inside and=0Anot releasing=E2=80=9D. This was borne out when, wi=
th the back wheels off=0Athe ground, I was trying to find out what was g=
oing wrong=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6the=0Agauge was in and I was watching it. In=
to OD=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6.the usual click plus=0Aa different sort of noise=
/clunk and a distinct jerk. The gauge went=0Aoff the scale=E2=80=A6.need=
le all the way round and jammed on the reverse=0Aside of zero where it r=
emained; gauge destroyed. The gasket between=0Athe solenoid/operating le=
ver casing and the accumulator area=0Aruptured and oil started to come o=
ut. Fairly briskly. So that was a=0Acomplete disaster.</p>=0A<p class=3D=
"MsoNormal"> </p>=0A<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I rang up ODSpares, for=
the 400<sup>th</sup>=0Atime, and Dave said that the accumulator =E2=80=
=93 brand new, fitted by=0Athem - must have jammed. He, very reasonably=
I thought, said that=0Aif I brought the box and OD up <i>again(!)</i>,=
he=E2=80=99d fit on a=0Acomplete new unit. So, I did and he did. I imag=
ine that he fitted a=0Acasing with all new bits where needed. He runs th=
em on a rig for 8=0Ahours before letting them leave the shop=E2=80=A6=E2=
=80=A6</p>=0A<p class=3D"MsoNormal"> </p>=0A<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=
Anyhow, I stuck the box etc back in =E2=80=93 I=E2=80=99m=0Agetting quit=
e good at that now =E2=80=93 and had high hopes. But, no good.=0AThe nee=
dle goes up to 500+ and stays there until I move it in and=0Aout of OD b=
y moving the stick left to right with the ignition on=0Aand the engine o=
ff.</p>=0A<p class=3D"MsoNormal"> </p>=0A<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Log=
ically, if logic applies to an OD, one=0Amight suppose EITHER that there=
is a batch of dud accumulators out=0Athere OR that there is some extern=
al factor that I=E2=80=99ve missed which=0Ahas been lurking undetected a=
ll the while?!? BUT, that would not=0Ahave made the accumulator jam??</p=
>=0A<p class=3D"MsoNormal"> </p>=0A<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Is it pos=
sible that there is something=0Aextraneous that could cause the electric=
s to play up only when the=0Aengine is running?</p>=0A<p class=3D"MsoNor=
mal">Or, do ODs need a few miles on them before=0Athey start working pro=
perly? Clutching at straws here!!</p>=0A<p class=3D"MsoNormal"> </p=
>=0A<p class=3D"MsoNormal">One last thing, Dave agreed that there was=0A=
still a pressure issue. He suggested drilling out the little hole=0Ain t=
he so-called =E2=80=9Cvalve =E2=80=93 operating=E2=80=9D (the rod under=
the ball=0Abearing). That was to allow the pressure to bleed off faster=
. He=0Asent me a new rod in case that didn=E2=80=99t work. Which it didn=
=E2=80=99t! The=0Ahole was just a tiny fraction less than 1mm and I dril=
led it out to=0A1.5mm. (Apparently, the factory used to drill them out f=
or=0Acompetition vehicles=E2=80=A6)</p>=0A<p class=3D"MsoNormal"> <=
/p>=0A<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Anyhow, I=E2=80=99m stuck. As is the OD!. A=
nd I=E2=80=99ve=0Agone completely beyond any expertise I ever had with t=
hese damn=0Adevices. I thought I understood the electrics and I thought=
I could=0Adiagnose most pressure related issues. But I=E2=80=99m gettin=
g nowhere and=0Ait=E2=80=99s been going on for months and months=E2=80=
=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6=E2=80=A6.</p>=0A<p class=3D"MsoNormal"> </p>=
=0A<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Any ideas would be very welcome. Exceeding=0Aw=
elcome.</p>=0A<p class=3D"MsoNormal"> </p>=0A<p class=3D"MsoNormal"=
>Simon</p>=0A<p class=3D"MsoNormal"> </p>=0A<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=
</p>=0A</div>=0A<br></blockquote>=0A<br></bspidell@comcast.net></d=
iv></body></html>
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