--===============7388633707900403317==
--000000000000c7033105d8b88eaa
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Michael -
I think he is talking about the threads in the head that the little feed
nipple for the pipe screws to.
Cheers,
Alan
On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 at 7:12 AM, Michael Salter via Healeys <
healeys@autox.team.net> wrote:
> Rocker oil supply banjo bolt thread.
>
> On Fri, Feb 11, 2022 at 4:42 PM Bob Haskell <rchaskell@earthlink.net>
> wrote:
>
>> Hank,
>>
>> I wonder, since it is an "oil line", could the threads be BSB - British
>> Standard Brass? I realize that the screw is steel threading into
>> aluminum, not brass. BSB is a 55 degree thread form. CEI/BSC is 60
>> degree.
>>
>> Various threads are described on British Tools and Fastener's web site:
>> https://britishfasteners.com/threads-bsb
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Bob Haskell
>> Austin Healey 3000 BN7/BT7 registrar
>>
>> On 2/11/22 4:26 PM, gradea1@charter.net wrote:
>> > Thanks to Curt for this accurate and informative article. I totally
>> > agree that the early part numbers ie: 1B--- would designate British
>> > fasteners, and the later three letter, three number designation
>> > aligned the UNF hardware. That is our best clue to what was used back
>> > then.
>> >
>> > This early engine has stumped me on a number of occasions and I really
>> > feel that for that first year anything goes to get the product to the
>> > market...a real scramble. I have a notion that this engine was sitting
>> > in stock as surplus A-90 leftovers. The block was factory painted dk.
>> > blue. The head on this car was "Gold Seal" rebuilt. The threads I
>> > discussed, are most definitely British Standard Cycle (CEI) 26 TPI..
>> > Many of the studs are BSF on one end and BSC on the other. Luckily,
>> > these parts are available from British Tool & Fasteners, including a
>> > full line of BSC hardware. Unfortunately they were out of 3/8 BSC
>> > helicoils, so I had to get some from, you guessed it... Amazon. Big $$
>> > rather than Pence.
>> >
>> > Yes, all this is another great unsolved mystery in Austin/BMC history.
>> > But, what else would we have to discuss...covid? Regards, Hank
>> >
>> > -----------------------------------------
>> >
>> > From: "Curtis Arndt"
>> > To: "Hank Leach"
>> > Cc: "Michael Salter", "Healeys", "Bob Haskell", "Curtis Arndt"
>> > Sent: Thursday February 10 2022 6:22:39PM
>> > Subject: Re: [Healeys] 100 fasteners
>> >
>> > Regarding the steel and strength ratings of British and other
>> > fasteners, they were either _"Mild"_ Steel (British grades unmarked or
>> > A, B, C or K for nuts with "B" being the most common after unmarked)
>> > or _"High Tensile"_ steel (all other letter grades D-G [pre 1950] and
>> > R-Y [post 1950]). The confusion appears in calling "_High Tensile
>> > Steel_" - "High Speed Steel" as Michael has pointed out.
>> >
>> > See my attached article...
>> >
>> > Also with regard to fastener listings in the various parts manuals and
>> > other BMC publications, if a fastener is noted with a "part number",
>> > it is typically a Whitworth type thread form. When the changeover to
>> > "Unified " fasteners occurred in the mid 1950s, all Unified fasteners
>> > were noted with a new designation, describing in code the size of the
>> > fastener. I would assume that all Unified fasteners fell under this
>> > new coding system... But we know what happens when we assume.
>> >
>> > BTW, this Unified fastener coding is published in a chart that most of
>> > you should be familiar with by now.
>> >
>> > For those unfamiliar, the "British Standards" define "Whitworth" as
>> > all thread forms with a pitch angle of the threads measuring 55=C2=B0,
>> > e.g., BSW, BSF, BSPP, BSPT, BSB, etc... This is in contrast to Unified
>> > (UNF/UNC), SAE and BSCy thread forms which have 60=C2=B0 pitch angle o=
f the
>> > threads. This is why British Standard Cycle are NOT a Whitworth thread
>> > form despite the bolt heads using BSW/BSF spanners, and what is
>> > erroneously published in Wikipedia... But I digress.
>> >
>> > That being said, I would assume that part numbers (11B122 and 11B 298)
>> > are both Whitworth fasteners since they are listed as part numbers.
>> > Again, we all know what happens when we assume! Since these are
>> > specialty fasteners, and not your run of the mill bolts, who knows how
>> > BMC designated them? One may be BSF and the other UNF. Measure twice
>> > or have a Helicoil kit on hand!
>> >
>> > Cheers,
>> >
>> > Curt
>> >
>> > On Thu, Feb 10, 2022 at 4:23 PM Henry G Leach via Healeys
>> > <healeys@autox.team.net> wrote:
>> >
>> > I don't want to be a smart ass, here like Ralph found in
>> > "Christmas Story", and stick my tongue to a light pole, but the
>> > treads found on my rocker oil feed pipe are *HSS, 26TPI*. Here are
>> > two measurements with a gauge showing the pattern. If it was 3/8
>> > x24 UNF the job would be done. However, I had to order a special
>> > $65 kit for the HSS Helicoils to repair this block.
>> >
>> > Now, here are our 55 degree choices: *UNF 3/8 x 24*, BSW 3/8 x 16,
>> > *BSF 3/8 x 20*, HSS 3/8 x26, BSC (old CEI) 3/8 x 26 as well, or
>> > BSPF 3/8 x 19. Unless someone re-lathed this part it is factory
>> > 26TPI for sure-ran a tap and die in both parts.
>> >
>> > A note in the Sept. 1956 parts book refers to a service change
>> > shown here. (Vol 25, p.13 engine) The BMC group is trying to
>> > standardize this item. Accordingly, it appears to have been UNF
>> > (11B122) on the 2.2 Diesel engine and then changed to BSF (11B
>> > 298) at engine #225030. This engine I'm doing is from 1953 so who
>> > knows what the correct part is?
>> >
>> > In my March 1954 parts book the number for the "valve rocker
>> > bracket with tapped hole" is 1B2110 and locating pin is 1B2111.
>> > (no mention of TPI) That changed to 11B298 and 99.(BSF) in 1956.
>> > Of course the later 6-cyl. engines used AEC162-probably unified,
>> > but maybe still BSF.
>> >
>> > If someone has the right answer, I will stick my tongue to a light
>> > pole. Hank
>> >
>> > -----------------------------------------
>> >
>> > From: "Michael Salter"
>> > To: "Bob Haskell"
>> > Cc: "Bob Spidell", "Hank Leach", "Healeys"
>> > Sent: Wednesday February 9 2022 10:52:51AM
>> > Subject: Re: [Healeys] 100 Road draft (vent) pipe fasteners
>> >
>> > The fasteners wouldn't be HSS ...that is used for machine tools
>> > like drill bits and lathe tools.
>> >
>> > M
>> >
>> > On Wed, Feb 9, 2022 at 1:47 PM Bob Haskell via Healeys
>> > <healeys@autox.team.net> wrote:
>> >
>> > Bob,
>> >
>> > HSS - high speed steel.
>> > I think the threads are 3/8"-26 BSF (British Standard Fine).
>> >
>> > Cheers,
>> >
>> > Bob Haskell
>> > Austin Healey 3000 BN7/BT7 registrar
>> >
>>
>> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation $12.75
>
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys
> http://autox.team.net/archive/healeys
>
> Healeys@autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/healey.nut@gmail.com
>
>
--000000000000c7033105d8b88eaa
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<div dir=3D"auto">Hi Michael -</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D=
"auto">I think he is talking about the threads in the head that the little =
feed nipple for the pipe screws to.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div d=
ir=3D"auto">Cheers,</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Alan=
</div><div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_a=
ttr">On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 at 7:12 AM, Michael Salter via Healeys <<a href=
=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net";>healeys@autox.team.net</a>> wrote:<br=
></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-=
left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_=
default" style=3D"font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small">Rocker oil =
supply banjo bolt thread.<br></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><di=
v dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Fri, Feb 11, 2022 at 4:42 PM Bob Hask=
ell <<a href=3D"mailto:rchaskell@earthlink.net"; target=3D"_blank">rchask=
ell@earthlink.net</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote"=
style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);p=
adding-left:1ex">Hank,<br>
<br>
I wonder, since it is an "oil line", could the threads be BSB - B=
ritish <br>
Standard Brass?=C2=A0 I realize that the screw is steel threading into <br>
aluminum, not brass.=C2=A0 BSB is a 55 degree thread form.=C2=A0 CEI/BSC is=
60 <br>
degree.<br>
<br>
Various threads are described on British Tools and Fastener's web site:=
<br>
<a href=3D"https://britishfasteners.com/threads-bsb"; rel=3D"noreferrer" tar=
get=3D"_blank">https://britishfasteners.com/threads-bsb</a><br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
<br>
Bob Haskell<br>
Austin Healey 3000 BN7/BT7 registrar<br>
<br>
On 2/11/22 4:26 PM, <a href=3D"mailto:gradea1@charter.net"; target=3D"_blank=
">gradea1@charter.net</a> wrote:<br>
> Thanks to Curt for this accurate and informative article. I totally <b=
r>
> agree that the early part numbers ie: 1B--- would designate British <b=
r>
> fasteners, and the later three letter, three number designation <br>
> aligned the UNF hardware.=C2=A0 That is our best clue to what was used=
back <br>
> then.<br>
><br>
> This early engine has stumped me on a number of occasions and I really=
<br>
> feel that for that first year anything goes to get the product to the =
<br>
> market...a real scramble. I have a notion that this engine was sitting=
<br>
> in stock as surplus A-90 leftovers.=C2=A0 The block was factory painte=
d dk. <br>
> blue. The head on this car was "Gold Seal" rebuilt. The thre=
ads I <br>
> discussed, are most definitely British Standard Cycle (CEI) 26 TPI..=
=C2=A0 <br>
> Many of the studs are BSF on one end and BSC on the other. Luckily, <b=
r>
> these parts are available from British Tool & Fasteners, including=
a <br>
> full line of BSC hardware. Unfortunately they were out of 3/8 BSC <br>
> helicoils, so I had to get some from, you guessed it... Amazon. Big $$=
<br>
> rather than Pence.<br>
><br>
> Yes, all this is another great unsolved mystery in Austin/BMC history.=
<br>
> But, what else would we have to discuss...covid? Regards, Hank<br>
><br>
> -----------------------------------------<br>
><br>
> From: "Curtis Arndt"<br>
> To: "Hank Leach"<br>
> Cc: "Michael Salter", "Healeys", "Bob Haskell=
", "Curtis Arndt"<br>
> Sent: Thursday February 10 2022 6:22:39PM<br>
> Subject: Re: [Healeys] 100 fasteners<br>
><br>
> Regarding the steel and strength ratings of British and other <br>
> fasteners, they were either _"Mild"_ Steel (British grades u=
nmarked or <br>
> A, B, C or K for nuts with "B" being the most common after u=
nmarked) <br>
> or _"High Tensile"_ steel (all other letter grades D-G [pre =
1950] and <br>
> R-Y [post 1950]).=C2=A0 The confusion appears in calling "_High T=
ensile <br>
> Steel_" - "High Speed Steel" as Michael has pointed out=
.<br>
><br>
> See my attached article...<br>
><br>
> Also with regard to fastener listings in the various parts manuals and=
<br>
> other BMC publications, if a fastener is noted with a "part numbe=
r", <br>
> it is typically a Whitworth type thread form. When the changeover to <=
br>
> "Unified=C2=A0" fasteners occurred=C2=A0in the mid 1950s, al=
l Unified fasteners <br>
> were noted with a new designation, describing in code the size of the =
<br>
> fastener.=C2=A0=C2=A0I would assume that all Unified fasteners fell un=
der this <br>
> new coding system... But we know what happens when we assume.<br>
><br>
> BTW, this Unified fastener coding is published in a chart that most of=
<br>
> you should be familiar=C2=A0with=C2=A0by now.<br>
><br>
> For those unfamiliar, the "British Standards" define "W=
hitworth" as <br>
> all thread forms with a pitch angle of the threads measuring 55=C2=B0,=
<br>
> e.g., BSW, BSF, BSPP, BSPT, BSB, etc... This is in contrast to Unified=
<br>
> (UNF/UNC), SAE and BSCy thread forms which have 60=C2=B0 pitch angle o=
f the <br>
> threads.=C2=A0This is why British Standard Cycle are NOT a Whitworth t=
hread <br>
> form despite the bolt heads using BSW/BSF spanners, and what is <br>
> erroneously published in Wikipedia... But I digress.<br>
><br>
> That being said, I would assume that part numbers (11B122 and 11B 298)=
<br>
> are both Whitworth fasteners since they are=C2=A0listed as part number=
s.=C2=A0 <br>
> Again, we all know what=C2=A0happens when we assume! Since these are <=
br>
> specialty fasteners, and not your run of the mill bolts, who knows how=
<br>
> BMC designated them? One may be BSF and the other UNF.=C2=A0 Measure t=
wice <br>
> or have a Helicoil kit on hand!<br>
><br>
> Cheers,<br>
><br>
> Curt<br>
><br>
> On Thu, Feb 10, 2022 at 4:23 PM Henry G Leach via Healeys <br>
> <<a href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank">healey=
s@autox.team.net</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0I don't want to be a smart ass, here like Ralph=
found in<br>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0"Christmas Story", and stick my tongue to=
a light pole, but the<br>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0treads found on my rocker oil feed pipe are *HSS, 2=
6TPI*. Here are<br>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0two measurements with a gauge showing the pattern. =
If it was 3/8<br>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0x24 UNF the job would be done.=C2=A0 However, I had=
to order a special<br>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0$65 kit for the HSS Helicoils to repair this block.=
<br>
><br>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Now, here are our 55 degree choices: *UNF 3/8 x 24*=
, BSW 3/8 x 16,<br>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0*BSF 3/8 x 20*, HSS 3/8 x26, BSC (old CEI) 3/8 x 26=
as well, or<br>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0BSPF 3/8 x 19. Unless someone re-lathed this part i=
t is factory<br>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A026TPI for sure-ran a tap and die in both parts.<br>
><br>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0A note in the Sept. 1956 parts book refers to a ser=
vice change<br>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0shown here. (Vol 25, p.13 engine) The BMC group is =
trying to<br>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0standardize this item.=C2=A0 Accordingly, it appear=
s to have been UNF<br>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0(11B122) on the 2.2 Diesel engine and then changed =
to BSF (11B<br>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0298) at engine #225030. This engine I'm doing i=
s from 1953 so who<br>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0knows what the correct part is?<br>
><br>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0In my March 1954 parts book the number for the &quo=
t;valve rocker<br>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0bracket with tapped hole" is 1B2110 and=C2=A0=
=C2=A0locating pin is 1B2111.<br>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0(no mention of TPI)=C2=A0 That changed to 11B298 an=
d 99.(BSF) in 1956.<br>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Of course the later 6-cyl. engines used AEC162-prob=
ably unified,<br>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0but maybe still BSF.<br>
><br>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0If someone has the right answer, I will stick my to=
ngue to a light<br>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0pole.=C2=A0 Hank<br>
><br>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0-----------------------------------------<br>
><br>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0From: "Michael Salter"<br>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0To: "Bob Haskell"<br>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Cc: "Bob Spidell", "Hank Leach"=
, "Healeys"<br>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Sent: Wednesday February 9 2022 10:52:51AM<br>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Subject: Re: [Healeys] 100 Road draft (vent) pipe f=
asteners<br>
><br>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0The fasteners wouldn't be HSS ...that is used f=
or machine tools<br>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0like drill bits and lathe tools.<br>
><br>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0M<br>
><br>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0On Wed, Feb 9, 2022 at 1:47 PM Bob Haskell via Heal=
eys<br>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<<a href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net"; targe=
t=3D"_blank">healeys@autox.team.net</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Bob,<br>
><br>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0HSS - high speed steel.<br>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0I think the threads are 3/8"-26 =
BSF (British Standard Fine).<br>
><br>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Cheers,<br>
><br>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Bob Haskell<br>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Austin Healey 3000 BN7/BT7 registrar<=
br>
><br>
<br>
</blockquote></div>
_______________________________________________<br>
rer" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
<br>
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys"; rel=3D"noreferre=
r" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys</a> <a href=3D"h=
ttp://autox.team.net/archive/healeys" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">=
http://autox.team.net/archive/healeys</a><br>
<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Healeys@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank">Healeys@autox.t=
eam.net</a><br>
<a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys"; rel=3D"noreferre=
r" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys</a><br>
<br>
s/healey.nut@gmail.com" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.t=
eam.net/mailman/options/healeys/healey.nut@gmail.com</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote></div></div>
--000000000000c7033105d8b88eaa--
--===============7388633707900403317==
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline
_______________________________________________
Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys
http://autox.team.net/archive/healeys
Healeys@autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys
--===============7388633707900403317==--
|