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Re: [Healeys] Ring Choice - closing the loop

To: m g sharp <m.g.sharp@sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: [Healeys] Ring Choice - closing the loop
From: Charles Schott via Healeys <healeys@autox.team.net>
Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2021 09:07:25 -0400 (EDT)
Cc: healeys@autox.team.net
Delivered-to: mharc@autox.team.net
Delivered-to: healeys@autox.team.net
References: <002001d73515$86b4f330$941ed990$@sympatico.ca>
Thread-index: Adc1EiyR3a0nIa7zRz6tSJANnBryLoAyESxe
Thread-topic: Ring Choice - closing the loop
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Mirek,=20

You might be too far along for this, but if you're doing a 100-4 engine I h=
ave a new single lip seal conversion kit for the rear of the engine. It req=
uires machining of the crankshaft and the engine block. Also, you can buy a=
 timing chain cover that has been modified to take a single lip seal.=20

Regards,=20

Charlie=20

----- Original Message -----

From: "m.g.sharp--- via Healeys" <healeys@autox.team.net>=20
To: healeys@autox.team.net=20
Sent: Monday, April 19, 2021 7:14:19 AM=20
Subject: [Healeys] Ring Choice - closing the loop=20



Many thanks to everyone who responded to my question about the rings. Seems=
 that there are examples of people fitting that fifth ring and leaving it o=
ff, and no-one reported a problem or bad experience either way. It also see=
ms there is no hard knowledge on why that bottom ring was fitted, but sever=
al of us, me included, think it may have been aesthetic: simply to reduce t=
he noise from piston slap. I thought Earl=E2=80=99s response was most telli=
ng in that he had been through a complete engine cycle (i.e. he is on his s=
econd rebuild after 140,000 miles on the first) with a 5-ring piston and th=
ere were no issues noted on the strip-down and good performance.=20



While I have no doubt that extra ring may result in extra friction and rob =
the engine of a horsepower or two, no-one has measured it, so we do not kno=
w if that is significant in any way. The only other potential down-side is =
that the bottom ring will scrape the oil from the cylinder wall on the down=
-stroke, reducing lubrication on any piston-cylinder wall contact between t=
he two oil control rings. However, the bottom ring may also prevent the pis=
ton from making contact with wall, or at least reduce the friction, so mayb=
e that is not an issue.=20



My goal is a well-built, reliable, original car with factory-level performa=
nce. Given that, and some concerns about the unknown consequences of an emp=
ty ring groove, I am electing to install the 5 th ring. Also, I think there=
 is wisdom in Hank=E2=80=99s comment that as a general rule parts should be=
 installed as the manufacturer intended =E2=80=93 who are we to second gues=
s the engineers who thought it necessary to add that ring?=20



Interesting discussion, and if anyone ever turns up hard engineering eviden=
ce as to why that extra ring was added, I would be very happy if they would=
 share it.=20



As always, this list is amazing for providing a forum for providing a forum=
 for discussion on the things we find interesting =E2=80=93 as arcane they =
may be!=20



With thanks, Mirek=20

_______________________________________________=20

Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys http://autox.team.net/archiv=
e=20

Healeys@autox.team.net=20
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys=20

nology.net=20



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<html><body><div style=3D"font-family: times new roman, new york, times, se=
rif; font-size: 12pt; color: #000000"><div>Mirek,</div><div><br></div><div>=
You might be too far along for this, but if you're doing a 100-4 engine I h=
ave a new single lip seal conversion kit for the rear of the engine. It req=
uires machining of the crankshaft and the engine block. Also, you can buy a=
 timing chain cover that has been modified to take a single lip seal.</div>=
<div><br></div><div>Regards,</div><div><br></div><div>Charlie&nbsp;</div><d=
iv><br></div><hr id=3D"zwchr"><div style=3D"color:#000;font-weight:normal;f=
ont-style:normal;text-decoration:none;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-seri=
f;font-size:12pt;"><b>From: </b>"m.g.sharp--- via Healeys" &lt;healeys@auto=
x.team.net&gt;<br><b>To: </b>healeys@autox.team.net<br><b>Sent: </b>Monday,=
 April 19, 2021 7:14:19 AM<br><b>Subject: </b>[Healeys] Ring Choice - closi=
ng the loop<br><div><br></div><style><!--

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--></style><div class=3D"WordSection1"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D=
"EN-US">Many thanks to everyone who responded to my question about the ring=
s.&nbsp; Seems that there are examples of people fitting that fifth ring an=
d leaving it off, and no-one reported a problem or bad experience either wa=
y.&nbsp; It also seems there is no hard knowledge on why that bottom ring w=
as fitted, but several of us, me included, think it may have been aesthetic=
: simply to reduce the noise from piston slap.&nbsp; I thought Earl=E2=80=
=99s response was most telling in that he had been through a complete engin=
e cycle (i.e. he is on his second rebuild after 140,000 miles on the first)=
 with a 5-ring piston and there were no issues noted on the strip-down and =
good performance.</span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nb=
sp;</span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">While I have no d=
oubt that extra ring may result in extra friction and rob the engine of a h=
orsepower or two, no-one has measured it, so we do not know if that is sign=
ificant in any way.&nbsp; The only other potential down-side is that the bo=
ttom ring will scrape the oil from the cylinder wall on the down-stroke, re=
ducing lubrication on any piston-cylinder wall contact between the two oil =
control rings.&nbsp; However, the bottom ring may also prevent the piston f=
rom making contact with wall, or at least <span data-mce-style=3D"text-deco=
ration: underline;" style=3D"text-decoration: underline;">reduce</span> the=
 friction, so maybe that is not an issue.</span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=
<span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;</span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"=
EN-US">My goal is a well-built, reliable, original car with factory-level p=
erformance.&nbsp; Given that, and some concerns about the unknown consequen=
ces of an empty ring groove, I am electing to install the 5<sup>th</sup> ri=
ng.&nbsp; Also, I think there is wisdom in Hank=E2=80=99s comment that as a=
 general rule parts should be installed as the manufacturer intended =E2=80=
=93 who are we to second guess the engineers who thought it necessary to ad=
d that ring?</span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;</=
span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Interesting discussion=
, and if anyone ever turns up hard engineering evidence as to why that extr=
a ring was added, I would be very happy if they would share it.</span></p><=
p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;</span></p><p class=3D"Mso=
Normal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">As always, this list is amazing for providing =
a forum for providing a forum for discussion on the things we find interest=
ing =E2=80=93 as arcane they may be!</span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span=
 lang=3D"EN-US">&nbsp;</span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US=
">With thanks, Mirek</span></p></div><br>__________________________________=
_____________<br>Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html<br>Sugges=
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