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I am struggling with Michael's explanation. Everywhere I search, it claims
hot water exits via the Top hose and re-enters as cold water via bottom
hose. That would be why the thermostat is situated at the top of the engine
on the outlet. No doubt someone will correct me if I am wrong.
John Rowe
Qld Australia
On Mon, Mar 8, 2021 at 12:03 PM Harold Manifold via Healeys <
healeys@autox.team.net> wrote:
> Michael,
>
> My general model has a lot of assumptions and will
> be directionally correct but not exact. I assumed hot water from the engi=
ne
> goes into the top of the radiator and cooler water exists from the bottom
> of the radiator. The base case was a flow rate of 1 US Gal/Min. If there =
is
> a better average flow rate for the AH water pump let me know, I used a SW=
AG
> to get the model to work. If all other factors stay the same and flow rat=
e
> is reduced to 0.8 GPM the temperature into the radiator increased by 3 de=
g
> F and the temperature leaving the radiator deceases by 2.6 deg F. I was
> trying to simulate the condition when the car slows down and the water pu=
mp
> flow is reduced. If the flow rate is increased to 1.2 GPM the temperature
> into the radiator decreases 2 deg F and the temperate out of the radiator
> increases 1.7 deg F. In the model I have the flow rate has the least affe=
ct
> of the four factors.
>
> The lower the flow rate the greater the difference between T(in) and
> T(out) but T(in) goes up as flow rate goes down.
>
> I am the first to admit my model has many assumptions.
>
> Does this agree with actual results?
>
> Harold
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Michael Salter [mailto:michaelsalter@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Sunday, March 07, 2021 2:53 PM
> *To:* Harold Manifold
> *Cc:* Healey List
> *Subject:* Re: [Healeys] Overheating
>
> Not wanting to nit-pick Harold but I believe that this statement is
> incorrect and could result in considerable confusion:
> *"If the water flow rate decreases by 20% the water temperature at the to=
p
> of radiator will increase slightly and will drop slightly at bottom of th=
e
> radiator." *
> Coolant exits the engine from the water pump and is pumped to the bottom
> of the radiator.
> With everything else being equal, a decrease in the rate of flow of the
> coolant will result in the coolant staying in the radiator longer thus
> allowing more time for the transfer of heat to air.
> The result of the slower flow would be a LOWER temperature at the outlet
> "top" the radiator assuming of course that the radiator inlet temperature
> remains constant.
> Of course with slower flow the converse will occur within the engine
> because, as there is more time for the heat of the engine block to be
> transferred into the coolant, the coolant will be hotter as it exits the
> block at the water pump and travels to the radiator inlet "bottom".
> We 100 owners think about such things a lot :-)
>
> M
>
>
> On Sun, Mar 7, 2021 at 5:27 PM Harold Manifold via Healeys <
> healeys@autox.team.net> wrote:
>
>> Like many of you I have been cooped up for the past 12 months waiting fo=
r
>> a vaccine and for life to return to normal. I have been happily occupyin=
g
>> my time doing a complete restoration of a BT7 and had lots of time to
>> consider what upgrades or modifications are recommended to overcome some=
of
>> inherent Healey problems. I come to realize maintaining a consistent
>> temperature of the cooling water is an issue. With little else to do whi=
le
>> in lock down I looked into the factors that affect cooling to see if it
>> would point to any obvious upgrades. The design of automobile cooling
>> systems is very complicated but can be distilled down to a few key facto=
rs.
>> Identifying the factors that have the greatest influence on the system w=
ill
>> help to point to possible solutions or remedies. I will suggest some of =
the
>> factors may not be as obvious as others.
>>
>> The job of the cooling system is to remove the engine heat generated. If
>> the capacity of the cooling system to remove heat (i.e. BTU's or HP) is
>> greater than the engine heat generated in all situations then the system
>> will reach a steady state. For most Healey's driving on flat road at 60 =
MPH
>> when ambient temperature is less than 80 F everything is in balance. For
>> many Healey's the situation changes at lower engine RPM's and vehicle
>> speeds. What are the critical variables that affect the water
>> temperature the thermostat sees:
>>
>> 1. Engine heat generated.
>> 2. Radiator heat transfer coefficient.
>> 3. Air temperature or more importantly the difference between air
>> temperature and the radiator cooling fin temperature.
>> 4. Water flow rate.
>>
>> At slower engine/vehicle speeds hotter air from the engine bay can
>> surround the radiator and the water flow rate drops. We can estimate the
>> influence of each:
>>
>> If the air temperature at the radiator core increases from 80 to 100 deg
>> F the water temperature will increase approximately 20 deg F. All things
>> being equal the water temperature will increase approximately 1 deg F pe=
r
>> degree increase in air temperature.
>> If the water flow rate decreases by 20% the water temperature at the top
>> of radiator will increase slightly and will drop slightly at bottom of t=
he
>> radiator.
>>
>> If the water temperature was above the full open temperate of the
>> thermostat when driving at 60 MPH then the thermostat is no longer
>> controlling the system and the water temperature will change when one of
>> the critical variables changes. Often the conclusion is changing
>> thermostats, fans or using some exotic coolant. I will risk the wrath of
>> this forum and suggest one of the clues to solving the slow speed proble=
m
>> is look at what is happening at 60 MPH. If the water temperature is abov=
e
>> the thermostat rating while driving at highway speeds then factors 1 and=
2
>> above are likely the issue. In other words there is no reserve capacity =
in
>> the cooling system and soon as air next to the core gets hotter the wate=
r
>> temperature increases.
>>
>> The engine heat generated is a major factor, the less heat the marginal
>> Healey cooling system has to deal with the better. If the engine heat
>> generated can be reduced by 20% the water temperature will decrease by 2=
2
>> deg F. The factors that affect engine heat generated are: losses due to
>> friction, air/fuel mixture and engine timing. If the air/fuel mixture is
>> too lean it will cause the engine to generate more heat. A fuel pump tha=
t
>> maintains the minimum required fuel pressure at all engine speeds and we=
ll
>> tuned and jetted carburetors are important. The correct ignition timing =
and
>> the mechanical and vacuum advance curves are very important to reduce he=
at
>> generated.
>>
>> Lastly we have the radiator heat transfer coefficient. The coefficient i=
s
>> based on the design of the radiator, number of tubes, rows of tubes, typ=
e
>> of fins, density of fins, area of radiator, materials used to construct =
the
>> radiator, etc. The units are BTU/hr/deg F. If some radiator tubes are bl=
ock
>> or have reduced flow, if the fins are damaged or fowled with debris, if =
the
>> radiator has cracks or spilt seams or if the radiator top tank is not fu=
ll
>> the radiator will not perform at its optimum. If in doubt have a radiato=
r
>> shop boil out the radiator and pressure test.
>>
>> It seems some Healey's don't have a problem with over heating while
>> others do. One possible explanation is the Healey cooling system is
>> marginal at best and all of the factors that could affect overheating mu=
st
>> be in harmony with little room for forgiveness.
>>
>> The upgrades I have done are a plastic 5 bladed fan, new stock radiator
>> core, 123 ignition and bungs on the exhaust for oxygen sensors. Time wil=
l
>> tell if these helped tame the cooling system.
>>
>> I hope this helps and isn't killing a fly with an elephant gun.
>>
>> Harold
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* Healeys [mailto:healeys-bounces@autox.team.net] *On Behalf Of *L=
eonard
>> Berkowitz via Healeys
>> *Sent:* Sunday, March 07, 2021 7:08 AM
>> *To:* healeys@autox.team.net
>> *Subject:* Re: [Healeys] Overheating
>>
>> So first step is to make sure your temperature gauge is accurate. If you
>> are still running hot I solved the problem by adding an additional row t=
o a
>> factory original radiator. Haven't had any problem with overheating sin=
ce.
>> I had already tried adding an electric fan, an oil cooler and a Texas fa=
n.
>> Nothing worked.
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* Healeys <healeys-bounces@autox.team.net> on behalf of
>> rfbegani@gmail.com <rfbegani@gmail.com>
>> *Sent:* Saturday, March 6, 2021 4:58 PM
>> *To:* 'Michael Salter' <michaelsalter@gmail.com>; 'Bob Spidell' <
>> bspidell@comcast.net>; 'Ahealey help' <healeys@autox.team.net>
>> *Subject:* [Healeys] Overheating
>>
>>
>> Bob & Mike:
>>
>>
>>
>> You both may have seen my requests on overheating of my BJ8 and the
>> response from the group. As a result, I purchased an infrared thermomet=
er
>> to determine if my water gauge was giving accurate readings. The
>> thermometer gun told me that my water gauge was 30 degrees higher than t=
he
>> temperature of the sensor attached to the block. At the same time, I
>> noticed my gauge will show 120 degrees at rest instead of going down to =
90
>> degrees which would indicate a 30-degree high reading. In May when I le=
ave
>> for cool Michigan, I will send the gauge to Nisonger to be rebuilt.
>>
>>
>>
>> I began to test the temperature of the water going through the cooling
>> system at the inlet to and outlet from the block, inlet and outlet to th=
e
>> radiator and the upper and lower hoses while the engine is running at id=
le
>> and at 2-3 Thousand rpm. The chart I created to record these temperatur=
es
>> allowed me to produce observations or averages because the flow of the
>> water is dependent upon the rpms of the engine. The engine has overheat=
ed
>> all of the 40 years I have owned it and has only 1000 miles on the new
>> speedo since rebuilding to 20 over.
>>
>>
>>
>> At the radiator inlet 134 outlet 85 at high rpms with electric fan
>> operating.
>>
>> inlet 103 outlet 94 at idle rpms with electric
>> fan operating.
>>
>>
>>
>> The above temperatures are recorded at the inlet and all along the hoses=
.
>>
>>
>>
>> These temperatures indicate the pump is circulating water with sufficien=
t
>> gallons to cool the engine only when the engine is at high rpms. At idl=
e
>> the pump does not circulate sufficient water to keep the engine cool. T=
his
>> is especially true when you have been operating the engine at high speed
>> and come down to 30 =E2=80=93 40 mph and stop and go traffic. Maybe the=
real
>> answer is to install an electric pump for constant cooling water?
>>
>>
>>
>> In the past week, I have installed a large Dorman coolant recovery tank
>> and a new 7 psi 1 inch radiator cap because I learned that our radiators
>> have a long neck. Both those changes have reduced my problem of very hi=
gh
>> overheating and resulting boiling over. In addition, when my water gaug=
e
>> shows 212 degrees the water temperature is actually 30 degrees less or
>> approximately 185 degrees. Also, I am not boiling over and loosing
>> coolant. Nevertheless, the engine water temperature is still spiking to
>> 210 plus degrees true when coming off highway speeds.
>>
>>
>>
>> In my review of various sites, the radiator equipment suppliers and
>> others are recommending increasing the pressure in the classic car syste=
ms
>> to 15 psi plus, and coolant recovery tanks =E2=80=9Cif your coolant syst=
em,
>> radiator, hoses etc. is new=E2=80=9D and therefore can hold the pressure=
.
>> Unfortunately, I have not found any maker of a 1 inch depth x 2.33 inch
>> diameter radiator cap except our 7 psi cap so I can try such a pressuriz=
ed
>> system.
>>
>>
>>
>> Another suggestion on an older discussion at the British Car Forum
>> indicated some of the Ontario car owners had switched to Evans Waterless
>> Coolant rather than 50/50 coolant water mixture.
>>
>>
>>
>> I still have no idea why a minority of our group has overheating
>> problems. More ideas?
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>>
>>
>> Bob Begani 67 BJ8
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Healeys <healeys-bounces@autox.team.net> *On Behalf Of *Michael
>> Salter via Healeys
>> *Sent:* Saturday, March 6, 2021 12:20 PM
>> *To:* Bob Spidell <bspidell@comcast.net>
>> *Cc:* healeys@autox.team.net
>> *Subject:* Re: [Healeys] 100 water pumps
>>
>>
>>
>> Yes Bob, there is something wrong with our assumptions regarding the
>> cooling system not being "large" enough.
>>
>> My wifes Maxima is around 300 HP and the radiator has less area than the
>> 100. Certainly it has a couple of very effective electric fans but they
>> really don't cut in very often unless you have the AC on.
>>
>> I'm suspicious of the rate of circulation but I've talked to Larry Varle=
y
>> about this subject and he indicated that increasing the size of the wate=
r
>> pump annular orifice didn't make much difference when he tried it.
>>
>>
>>
>> M
>>
>>
>>
>> M
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Mar 6, 2021 at 11:42 AM Bob Spidell <bspidell@comcast.net> wrote=
:
>>
>> I sold my late father's 1955 Thunderbird to my BFF. These cars have a
>> very similar problem to Healeys overheating, esp. at idle. When Ford
>> stuffed the 292ci Y-Block into the T-Bird, they found the engine was
>> (essentially) too short for the long-hooded car, so they 'engineered'--I
>> use the term loosely--a cast iron spacer to move the fan closer to the
>> radiator. The spacer had the added 'benefit' of severely limiting coolan=
t
>> flow through the pump and radiator; there are some aftermarket fixes and=
my
>> friend, after doing the usual radiator re-core, better fan, etc. install=
ed
>> both a better pump (larger vanes) and a re-engineered spacer. Attached p=
ic
>> is not of the spacer he used--I can't find the link to it--but it shows =
the
>> general idea (Ford basically put a 'dam' in the cooling system to block
>> flow, and the improved spacers mostly remove it). It appears this approa=
ch
>> has improved cooling, though the engine probably still gets warm if it h=
as
>> to sit too long at idle. Link is to one of the improved pumps:
>>
>>
>> https://www.classictbird.com/Water-Pump-Modified-for-Higher-Output-1-Per=
-car/productinfo/8501HO/
>>
>> Anyways, after doing all the usual stuff to increase cooling, esp. on my
>> BJ8, I've wondered if a similar approach would work on Healeys. Their pu=
mps
>> have very small vanes, and the cavity in which the vanes operate seems
>> pretty small for such a large lump of cast iron (I'm guessing an uprated
>> radiator core won't help much if the coolant flow is still hampered; at
>> least, that's what I've found). This is probably not an option as, of
>> course, our engines don't have a similar spacer to be improved upon, and=
it
>> would be a major task to increase both the cavity's size and the pump (b=
ut
>> I can dream).
>>
>> ps. The overheating issue with Healeys is usually attributed to too big
>> of an engine in too small of an engine compartment, and too little airfl=
ow.
>> But, the engine bay in an old T-Bird is huge by comparison--and the engi=
ne
>> not terribly larger in displacement--and still suffers the same problem.
>>
>> Bob
>>
>>
>>
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--0000000000003645e805bcfd070f
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<div dir=3D"ltr">I am struggling with Michael's explanation. Everywhere=
I search, it claims hot water exits via the Top hose and re-enters as cold=
water via bottom hose. That would be why the thermostat is situated at the=
top of the engine on the outlet. No doubt someone will correct me if I am =
wrong.<div>John Rowe</div><div>Qld Australia</div></div><br><div class=3D"g=
mail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Mar 8, 2021 at 12=
:03 PM Harold Manifold via Healeys <<a href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team=
.net">healeys@autox.team.net</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"g=
mail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204=
,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><u></u>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span><font color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2" fa=
ce=3D"Arial">Michael,</font></span></div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span><font color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2" fa=
ce=3D"Arial"></font></span>=C2=A0</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span><font color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2" fa=
ce=3D"Arial">My general model has a lot of assumptions and will=20
be=C2=A0directionally=C2=A0correct but not exact.=C2=A0I assumed=C2=A0hot w=
ater=20
from the engine goes into the top of the radiator and cooler water exists f=
rom=20
the bottom of the radiator. The base case=C2=A0was a flow rate of 1 US Gal/=
Min.=20
If there is a better average flow rate for the AH water pump let me know, I=
used=20
a SWAG to get the model to work. If all other factors stay the same and flo=
w=20
rate is reduced to 0.8 GPM the temperature into the radiator increased by 3=
deg=20
F and the temperature leaving the radiator deceases by 2.6 deg F. I was try=
ing=20
to simulate the condition when the car slows down and the water pump flow i=
s=20
reduced. If the flow rate is increased to 1.2 GPM the temperature into the=
=20
radiator decreases 2 deg F and the temperate out of the radiator increases =
1.7=20
deg F. In the model I have the flow rate has the least affect of the four=
=20
factors.</font></span></div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span><font color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2" fa=
ce=3D"Arial"></font></span>=C2=A0</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span><font color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2" fa=
ce=3D"Arial">The=C2=A0lower the flow rate the greater the difference=20
between T(in) and T(out) but T(in) goes up as flow rate goes=20
down.</font></span></div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span><font color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2" fa=
ce=3D"Arial"></font></span>=C2=A0</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span><font color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2" fa=
ce=3D"Arial">I am the first to admit my model has many=20
assumptions.</font></span></div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span><font color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2" fa=
ce=3D"Arial"></font></span>=C2=A0</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span><font color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2" fa=
ce=3D"Arial">Does this agree with actual results?</font></span></div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span><font color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2" fa=
ce=3D"Arial"></font></span>=C2=A0</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span><font color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2" fa=
ce=3D"Arial">Harold</font></span></div><br>
<div lang=3D"en-us" dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left">
<hr>
<font size=3D"2" face=3D"Tahoma"><b>From:</b> Michael Salter=20
[mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:michaelsalter@gmail.com"; target=3D"_blank">michae=
lsalter@gmail.com</a>] <br><b>Sent:</b> Sunday, March 07, 2021 2:53=20
PM<br><b>To:</b> Harold Manifold<br><b>Cc:</b> Healey List<br><b>Subject:</=
b>=20
Re: [Healeys] Overheating<br></font><br></div>
<div></div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small"><span style=3D"font-=
family:arial,sans-serif">Not wanting to nit-pick Harold but I=20
believe that this statement is incorrect and could result in considerable=
=20
confusion:</span></div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small"><span style=3D"font-=
family:arial,sans-serif"><i><font color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2">"If the=
=20
water flow rate decreases by 20% the water temperature at the top of radiat=
or=20
will increase slightly and will drop slightly at bottom of the radiator.&qu=
ot;</font>=20
</i><br></span></div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small"><span style=3D"font-=
family:arial,sans-serif">Coolant exits the engine from the water=20
pump and is pumped to the bottom of the radiator. <br></span></div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small"><span style=3D"font-=
family:arial,sans-serif">With everything else being equal, a=20
decrease in the rate of flow of the coolant will result in the coolant stay=
ing=20
in the radiator longer thus allowing more time for the transfer of heat to =
air.=20
<br></span></div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small"><span style=3D"font-=
family:arial,sans-serif">The result of the slower flow would be a=20
LOWER temperature at the outlet "top" the radiator assuming of co=
urse that the=20
radiator inlet temperature remains constant. <br></span></div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small"><span style=3D"font-=
family:arial,sans-serif">Of course with slower flow the converse=20
will occur within the engine because, as there is more time for the heat of=
the=20
engine block to be transferred into the coolant, the coolant will be hotter=
as=20
it exits the block at the water pump and travels to the radiator inlet=20
"bottom".</span></div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small"><span style=3D"font-=
family:arial,sans-serif">We 100 owners think about such things a=20
lot :-)<br></span></div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small"><span style=3D"font-=
family:arial,sans-serif"><br></span></div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small"><span style=3D"font-=
family:arial,sans-serif">M<br></span></div>
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-size:small;font-family:"com=
ic sans ms",sans-serif"><br></div></div><br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div class=3D"gmail_attr" dir=3D"ltr">On Sun, Mar 7, 2021 at 5:27 PM Harold=
Manifold via=20
Healeys <<a href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank">hea=
leys@autox.team.net</a>>=20
wrote:<br></div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"padding-left:1ex;border-left:1px=
solid rgb(204,204,204);margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex"><u></u>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span><font color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2" =
face=3D"Arial">Like many=20
of you I have been cooped up for the past 12 months waiting for a vaccine=
and=20
for life to return to normal. I have been happily occupying my time doing=
a=20
complete restoration of a BT7 and had lots of time to consider what upgra=
des=20
or modifications are recommended to overcome some of inherent Healey prob=
lems.=20
I come to realize maintaining a consistent temperature of the cooling wat=
er is=20
an issue. With little else to do while in lock down I looked into the fac=
tors=20
that affect cooling to see if it would point to any obvious upgrades. The=
=20
design of automobile cooling systems is very complicated but can=C2=A0be=
=20
distilled down to a few key factors. Identifying the factors that have th=
e=20
greatest influence on the system will help to point to possible solutions=
or=20
remedies. I will suggest some of the factors may not be as obvious as=20
others.</font></span></div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span><font color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2" =
face=3D"Arial"></font></span>=C2=A0</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span><font color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2" =
face=3D"Arial">The job of=20
the cooling system is to remove the engine heat generated. If the capacit=
y of=20
the cooling system to remove heat (i.e. BTU's=C2=A0or HP) is greater =
than the=20
engine heat generated in all situations then the system will reach a stea=
dy=20
state. For most Healey's driving on flat road at 60 MPH when=C2=A0amb=
ient=20
temperature is less than 80 F everything is in balance. For many Healey&#=
39;s the=20
situation changes at lower engine RPM's and vehicle speeds. What are =
the=20
critical variables that=C2=A0affect the water temperature=C2=A0the thermo=
stat=20
sees:</font></span></div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span><font color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2" =
face=3D"Arial"></font></span>=C2=A0</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span><font color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2" =
face=3D"Arial">1. Engine=20
heat generated.</font></span></div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span><font color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2" =
face=3D"Arial">2.=20
Radiator heat transfer coefficient.</font></span></div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span><font color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2" =
face=3D"Arial">3. Air=20
temperature or more importantly the difference between air temperature an=
d the=20
radiator cooling fin temperature.</font></span></div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span><font color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2" =
face=3D"Arial">4. Water=20
flow rate.</font></span></div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span><font color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2" =
face=3D"Arial"></font></span>=C2=A0</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span><font color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2" =
face=3D"Arial">At slower=20
engine/vehicle speeds hotter air from the engine bay can surround the rad=
iator=20
and the water flow rate=C2=A0drops. We can estimate the influence of=20
each:</font></span></div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span><font color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2" =
face=3D"Arial"></font></span>=C2=A0</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span><font color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2" =
face=3D"Arial">If the air=20
temperature at the radiator core increases from 80 to=C2=A0100 deg F the =
water=20
temperature will increase approximately 2</font></span><span><font color=
=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial">0 deg F. All things being equal the =
water=20
temperature will increase approximately 1 deg F per degree increase in ai=
r=20
temperature.</font></span></div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span><font color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2" =
face=3D"Arial">If the=20
water flow rate decreases by 20% the water temperature at the top of radi=
ator=20
will increase slightly and will drop slightly at bottom of the=20
radiator.</font></span></div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span><font color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2" =
face=3D"Arial"></font></span>=C2=A0</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span><font color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2" =
face=3D"Arial">If the=20
water temperature was above the full open temperate of the thermostat=20
when=C2=A0driving at 60 MPH then the thermostat is no longer controlling =
the=20
system and the water temperature will=C2=A0change when one of the critica=
l=20
variables changes.=C2=A0Often the conclusion is changing thermostats, fan=
s or=20
using some exotic coolant. I will risk the wrath of this forum and sugges=
t one=20
of the clues to solving the slow speed problem is look at what is happeni=
ng at=20
60 MPH. If the water temperature is above the thermostat rating while dri=
ving=20
at highway speeds then factors 1 and 2 above are likely the issue. In oth=
er=20
words there is no reserve capacity in the cooling system and soon as air =
next=20
to the core gets hotter the water temperature increases.</font></span></d=
iv>
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span><font color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2" =
face=3D"Arial"></font></span>=C2=A0</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span><font color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2" =
face=3D"Arial">The=C2=A0engine heat generated is a major factor, the less h=
eat the=20
marginal Healey cooling system has to deal with the better. If the engine=
heat=20
generated can be reduced by 20% the water temperature will decrease by 22=
deg=20
F. The factors that affect engine heat generated are: losses due to frict=
ion,=20
air/fuel mixture and engine timing. If the air/fuel mixture is too lean i=
t=20
will cause the engine to generate more heat. A fuel pump that maintains t=
he=20
minimum required fuel pressure at all engine speeds and well tuned and je=
tted=20
carburetors are important. The correct ignition timing and the mechanical=
and=20
vacuum advance curves are very important to reduce heat=20
generated.</font></span></div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span><font color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2" =
face=3D"Arial"></font></span>=C2=A0</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span><font color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2" =
face=3D"Arial">Lastly we=20
have the radiator heat transfer coefficient. The coefficient is based on =
the=20
design of the radiator, number of tubes, rows of tubes, type of fins, den=
sity=20
of fins, area of radiator, materials used to construct the radiator, etc.=
The=20
units are BTU/hr/deg F. If some radiator tubes are block or have reduced =
flow,=20
if the fins are damaged or fowled with debris, if the radiator has cracks=
or=20
spilt seams=C2=A0or if the radiator top tank is not full the radiator wil=
l not=20
perform at its optimum.=C2=A0If in doubt have a radiator shop boil out th=
e=20
radiator=C2=A0and pressure test.</font></span></div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span><font color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2" =
face=3D"Arial"></font></span>=C2=A0</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span><font color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2" =
face=3D"Arial">It seems=20
some Healey's don't have a problem with over heating while others=
do. One=20
possible explanation is the Healey cooling system is marginal at best and=
all=20
of the factors that could affect overheating must be=C2=A0in=20
harmony=C2=A0with=C2=A0little room for forgiveness.</font></span></div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span><font color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2" =
face=3D"Arial"></font></span>=C2=A0</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span><font color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2" =
face=3D"Arial">The=20
upgrades=C2=A0I have done are a plastic 5 bladed fan, new stock radiator =
core,=20
123 ignition and bungs on the exhaust for oxygen sensors. Time will tell =
if=20
these helped tame the cooling system.</font></span></div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span><font color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2" =
face=3D"Arial"></font></span>=C2=A0</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span><font color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2" =
face=3D"Arial">I hope=20
this helps and isn't killing a fly with an elephant gun.</font></span=
></div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span><font color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2" =
face=3D"Arial"></font></span>=C2=A0</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span><font color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2" =
face=3D"Arial">Harold</font></span></div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span><font color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2" =
face=3D"Arial"></font></span>=C2=A0</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span><font color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2" =
face=3D"Arial"></font></span>=C2=A0</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span><font color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2" =
face=3D"Arial"></font></span>=C2=A0</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span><font color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2" =
face=3D"Arial"></font></span>=C2=A0</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span><font color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2" =
face=3D"Arial"></font></span>=C2=A0</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span><font color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2" =
face=3D"Arial"></font></span>=C2=A0</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left"><span><font color=3D"#0000ff" size=3D"2" =
face=3D"Arial"></font></span>=C2=A0</div><br>
<div lang=3D"en-us" dir=3D"ltr" align=3D"left">
<hr>
<font size=3D"2" face=3D"Tahoma"><b>From:</b> Healeys [mailto:<a href=3D"=
mailto:healeys-bounces@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank">healeys-bounces@au=
tox.team.net</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Leonard=20
Berkowitz via Healeys<br><b>Sent:</b> Sunday, March 07, 2021 7:08=20
AM<br><b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_bla=
nk">healeys@autox.team.net</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Healeys]=20
Overheating<br></font><br></div>
<div></div>
<div style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;col=
or:rgb(0,0,0)">So=20
first step is to make sure your temperature gauge is accurate. If you are=
=20
still running hot I solved the problem by adding an additional row to a=
=20
factory original radiator.=C2=A0 Haven't had any problem with overhea=
ting=20
since. I had already tried adding an electric fan, an oil cooler and a Te=
xas=20
fan. Nothing worked.=C2=A0</div>
<div>
<div id=3D"gmail-m_-2421757166431902946gmail-m_2507401075191523387appendo=
nsend"></div>
<div style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif;col=
or:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></div>
<hr style=3D"width:98%;display:inline-block">
<div id=3D"gmail-m_-2421757166431902946gmail-m_2507401075191523387divRply=
FwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr"><font style=3D"font-size:11pt" color=3D"#000000" face=
=3D"Calibri, sans-serif"><b>From:</b>=20
Healeys <<a href=3D"mailto:healeys-bounces@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_=
blank">healeys-bounces@autox.team.net</a>> on behalf of <a href=3D"mailt=
o:rfbegani@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">rfbegani@gmail.com</a> <<a href=
=3D"mailto:rfbegani@gmail.com"; target=3D"_blank">rfbegani@gmail.com</a>>=
<br><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, March 6,=20
2021 4:58 PM<br><b>To:</b> 'Michael Salter' <<a href=3D"mailto=
:michaelsalter@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">michaelsalter@gmail.com</a>>=
; 'Bob Spidell' <<a href=3D"mailto:bspidell@comcast.net"; target=
=3D"_blank">bspidell@comcast.net</a>>;=20
'Ahealey help' <<a href=3D"mailto:healeys@autox.team.net"; targ=
et=3D"_blank">healeys@autox.team.net</a>><br><b>Subject:</b> [Healeys]=
=20
Overheating</font>=20
<div>=C2=A0</div></div>
<div lang=3D"EN-US">
<div>
<p style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;margin:0in"><sp=
an style=3D"font-size:14pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">Bob &=20
Mike:</span></p>
<p style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;margin:0in"><sp=
an style=3D"font-size:14pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"></span>=C2=A0</p>
<p style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;margin:0in"><sp=
an style=3D"font-size:14pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">You both may have=
=20
seen my requests on overheating of my BJ8 and the response from the=20
group.=C2=A0 As a result, I purchased an infrared thermometer to determin=
e if=20
my water gauge was giving accurate readings.=C2=A0 The thermometer gun to=
ld me=20
that my water gauge was 30 degrees higher than the temperature of the sen=
sor=20
attached to the block.=C2=A0 At the same time, I noticed my gauge will sh=
ow=20
120 degrees at rest instead of going down to 90 degrees which would indic=
ate a=20
30-degree high reading.=C2=A0 In May when I leave for cool Michigan, I wi=
ll=20
send the gauge to Nisonger to be rebuilt.</span></p>
<p style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;margin:0in"><sp=
an style=3D"font-size:14pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"></span>=C2=A0</p>
<p style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;margin:0in"><sp=
an style=3D"font-size:14pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">I began to test th=
e=20
temperature of the water going through the cooling system at the inlet to=
and=20
outlet from the block, inlet and outlet to the radiator and the upper and=
=20
lower hoses while the engine is running at idle and at 2-3 Thousand rpm.=
=C2=A0=20
The chart I created to record these temperatures allowed me to produce=20
observations or averages because the flow of the water is dependent upon =
the=20
rpms of the engine.=C2=A0 The engine has overheated all of the 40 years I=
have=20
owned it and has only 1000 miles on the new speedo since rebuilding to 20=
=20
over. </span></p>
<p style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;margin:0in"><sp=
an style=3D"font-size:14pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"></span>=C2=A0</p>
<p style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;margin:0in"><sp=
an style=3D"font-size:14pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">At the radiator in=
let=20
134 outlet 85 at high rpms with electric fan operating.</span></p>
<p style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;margin:0in"><sp=
an style=3D"font-size:14pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=20
inlet 103 outlet 94 at idle rpms with electric fan operating. </span></p>
<p style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;margin:0in"><sp=
an style=3D"font-size:14pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"></span>=C2=A0</p>
<p style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;margin:0in"><sp=
an style=3D"font-size:14pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">The above=20
temperatures are recorded at the inlet and all along the hoses.</span></p=
>
<p style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;margin:0in"><sp=
an style=3D"font-size:14pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"></span>=C2=A0</p>
<p style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;margin:0in"><sp=
an style=3D"font-size:14pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">These temperatures=
=20
indicate the pump is circulating water with sufficient gallons to cool th=
e=20
engine only when the engine is at high rpms.=C2=A0 At idle the pump does =
not=20
circulate sufficient water to keep the engine cool.=C2=A0 This is especia=
lly=20
true when you have been operating the engine at high speed and come down =
to 30=20
=E2=80=93 40 mph and stop and go traffic.=C2=A0 Maybe the real answer is =
to install an=20
electric pump for constant cooling water?</span></p>
<p style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;margin:0in"><sp=
an style=3D"font-size:14pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"></span>=C2=A0</p>
<p style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;margin:0in"><sp=
an style=3D"font-size:14pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">In the past week, =
I=20
have installed a large Dorman coolant recovery tank and a new 7 psi 1 inc=
h=20
radiator cap because I learned that our radiators have a long neck.=C2=A0=
Both=20
those changes have reduced my problem of very high overheating and result=
ing=20
boiling over.=C2=A0 In addition, when my water gauge shows 212 degrees th=
e=20
water temperature is actually 30 degrees less or approximately 185=20
degrees.=C2=A0 Also, I am not boiling over and loosing coolant.=C2=A0=20
Nevertheless, the engine water temperature is still spiking to 210 plus=
=20
degrees true when coming off highway speeds.=C2=A0 </span></p>
<p style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;margin:0in"><sp=
an style=3D"font-size:14pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"></span>=C2=A0</p>
<p style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;margin:0in"><sp=
an style=3D"font-size:14pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">In my review of=20
various sites, the radiator equipment suppliers and others are recommendi=
ng=20
increasing the pressure in the classic car systems to 15 psi plus, and co=
olant=20
recovery tanks =E2=80=9Cif your coolant system, radiator, hoses etc. is n=
ew=E2=80=9D and=20
therefore can hold the pressure.=C2=A0 Unfortunately, I have not found an=
y=20
maker of a 1 inch depth x 2.33 inch diameter radiator cap except our 7 ps=
i cap=20
so I can try such a pressurized system.</span></p>
<p style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;margin:0in"><sp=
an style=3D"font-size:14pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"></span>=C2=A0</p>
<p style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;margin:0in"><sp=
an style=3D"font-size:14pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">Another suggestion=
on=20
an older discussion at the British Car Forum indicated some of the Ontari=
o car=20
owners had switched to Evans Waterless Coolant rather than 50/50 coolant =
water=20
mixture.</span></p>
<p style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;margin:0in"><sp=
an style=3D"font-size:14pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"></span>=C2=A0</p>
<p style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;margin:0in"><sp=
an style=3D"font-size:14pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">I still have no id=
ea=20
why a minority of our group has overheating problems.=C2=A0 More=20
ideas?</span></p>
<p style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;margin:0in"><sp=
an style=3D"font-size:14pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"></span>=C2=A0</p>
<p style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;margin:0in"><sp=
an style=3D"font-size:14pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">Regards,</span></p=
>
<p style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;margin:0in"><sp=
an style=3D"font-size:14pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"></span>=C2=A0</p>
<p style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;margin:0in"><sp=
an style=3D"font-size:14pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">Bob Begani 67 BJ8=
=20
</span></p>
<p style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;margin:0in"><sp=
an style=3D"font-size:14pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"></span>=C2=A0</p>
<div style=3D"border-width:1pt medium medium;border-style:solid none none=
;border-top-color:rgb(225,225,225);border-right-color:initial;border-bottom=
-color:initial;padding:3pt 0in 0in;border-left-color:initial">
<p style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;margin:0in"><b>=
From:</b>=20
Healeys <<a href=3D"mailto:healeys-bounces@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_=
blank">healeys-bounces@autox.team.net</a>> <b>On Behalf Of=20
</b>Michael Salter via Healeys<br><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, March 6, 2021 12=
:20=20
PM<br><b>To:</b> Bob Spidell <<a href=3D"mailto:bspidell@comcast.net"; =
target=3D"_blank">bspidell@comcast.net</a>><br><b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mai=
lto:healeys@autox.team.net" target=3D"_blank">healeys@autox.team.net</a><br=
><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Healeys] 100=20
water pumps</p></div>
<p style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;margin:0in">=C2=
=A0</p>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;margin:0in"><sp=
an style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">Yes Bob, there is=
=20
something wrong with our assumptions regarding the cooling system not bei=
ng=20
"large" enough. </span><span style=3D"font-size:12pt"></span></=
p></div>
<div>
<p style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;margin:0in"><sp=
an style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">My wifes Maxima is=
=20
around 300 HP and the radiator has less area than the 100. Certainly it h=
as a=20
couple of very effective electric fans but they really don't cut in v=
ery often=20
unless you have the AC on.</span><span style=3D"font-size:12pt"></span></=
p></div>
<div>
<p style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;margin:0in"><sp=
an style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">I'm suspicious=
of the=20
rate of circulation but I've talked to Larry Varley about this subjec=
t and he=20
indicated that increasing the size of the water pump annular orifice didn=
't=20
make much difference when he tried it.</span><span style=3D"font-size:12p=
t"></span></p></div>
<div>
<p style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;margin:0in"><sp=
an style=3D"font-size:12pt"></span>=C2=A0</p></div>
<div>
<p style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;margin:0in"><sp=
an style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">M</span><span styl=
e=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS""></span></p></div=
>
<div>
<p style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;margin:0in"><sp=
an style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS""></span>=
=C2=A0</p></div>
<div>
<p style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;margin:0in"><sp=
an style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS"">M</span><=
/p></div></div>
<p style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;margin:0in">=C2=
=A0</p>
<div>
<div>
<p style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;margin:0in">On=
=20
Sat, Mar 6, 2021 at 11:42 AM Bob Spidell <<a href=3D"mailto:bspidell@c=
omcast.net" target=3D"_blank">bspidell@comcast.net</a>>=20
wrote:</p></div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-width:medium medium medium 1pt;border-style:n=
one none none solid;border-color:initial;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-lef=
t:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<p style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;margin:0in 0i=
n 12pt 11.4pt">I=20
sold my late father's 1955 Thunderbird to my BFF. These cars have a=
very=20
similar problem to Healeys overheating, esp. at idle. When Ford stuffed=
the=20
292ci Y-Block into the T-Bird, they found the engine was (essentially) =
too=20
short for the long-hooded car, so they 'engineered'--I use the =
term=20
loosely--a cast iron spacer to move the fan closer to the radiator. The=
=20
spacer had the added 'benefit' of severely limiting coolant flo=
w through the=20
pump and radiator; there are some aftermarket fixes and my friend, afte=
r=20
doing the usual radiator re-core, better fan, etc. installed both a bet=
ter=20
pump (larger vanes) and a re-engineered spacer. Attached pic is not of =
the=20
spacer he used--I can't find the link to it--but it shows the gener=
al idea=20
(Ford basically put a 'dam' in the cooling system to block flow=
, and the=20
improved spacers mostly remove it). It appears this approach has improv=
ed=20
cooling, though the engine probably still gets warm if it has to sit to=
o=20
long at idle. Link is to one of the improved pumps:<br><br><a href=3D"h=
ttps://www.classictbird.com/Water-Pump-Modified-for-Higher-Output-1-Per-car=
/productinfo/8501HO/" target=3D"_blank">https://www.classictbird.com/Water-=
Pump-Modified-for-Higher-Output-1-Per-car/productinfo/8501HO/</a><br><br>An=
yways,=20
after doing all the usual stuff to increase cooling, esp. on my BJ8, I&=
#39;ve=20
wondered if a similar approach would work on Healeys. Their pumps have =
very=20
small vanes, and the cavity in which the vanes operate seems pretty sma=
ll=20
for such a large lump of cast iron (I'm guessing an uprated radiato=
r core=20
won't help much if the coolant flow is still hampered; at least, th=
at's what=20
I've found). This is probably not an option as, of course, our engi=
nes don't=20
have a similar spacer to be improved upon, and it would be a major task=
to=20
increase both the cavity's size and the pump (but I can dream).<br>=
<br>ps.=20
The overheating issue with Healeys is usually attributed to too big of =
an=20
engine in too small of an engine compartment, and too little airflow. B=
ut,=20
the engine bay in an old T-Bird is huge by comparison--and the engine n=
ot=20
terribly larger in displacement--and still suffers the same=20
problem.<br><br>Bob </p></div>
<p style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;margin:0in 0i=
n 12pt">=C2=A0</p></blockquote></div></div></div></div></div>______________=
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