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Thanks for all that Bob.
One comment regarding increasing the cooling system pressure.
I rebuild quite a few Healey water pumps and can say unequivocally that the
seal type used in both the early and late style of 6 cylinder pump will not
handle much more than 7 p.s.i.
I would not recommend trying that approach.
M
On Sat., Mar. 6, 2021, 4:58 p.m. , <rfbegani@gmail.com> wrote:
> Bob & Mike:
>
>
>
> You both may have seen my requests on overheating of my BJ8 and the
> response from the group. As a result, I purchased an infrared thermomete=
r
> to determine if my water gauge was giving accurate readings. The
> thermometer gun told me that my water gauge was 30 degrees higher than th=
e
> temperature of the sensor attached to the block. At the same time, I
> noticed my gauge will show 120 degrees at rest instead of going down to 9=
0
> degrees which would indicate a 30-degree high reading. In May when I lea=
ve
> for cool Michigan, I will send the gauge to Nisonger to be rebuilt.
>
>
>
> I began to test the temperature of the water going through the cooling
> system at the inlet to and outlet from the block, inlet and outlet to the
> radiator and the upper and lower hoses while the engine is running at idl=
e
> and at 2-3 Thousand rpm. The chart I created to record these temperature=
s
> allowed me to produce observations or averages because the flow of the
> water is dependent upon the rpms of the engine. The engine has overheate=
d
> all of the 40 years I have owned it and has only 1000 miles on the new
> speedo since rebuilding to 20 over.
>
>
>
> At the radiator inlet 134 outlet 85 at high rpms with electric fan
> operating.
>
> inlet 103 outlet 94 at idle rpms with electric fa=
n
> operating.
>
>
>
> The above temperatures are recorded at the inlet and all along the hoses.
>
>
>
> These temperatures indicate the pump is circulating water with sufficient
> gallons to cool the engine only when the engine is at high rpms. At idle
> the pump does not circulate sufficient water to keep the engine cool. Th=
is
> is especially true when you have been operating the engine at high speed
> and come down to 30 =E2=80=93 40 mph and stop and go traffic. Maybe the =
real
> answer is to install an electric pump for constant cooling water?
>
>
>
> In the past week, I have installed a large Dorman coolant recovery tank
> and a new 7 psi 1 inch radiator cap because I learned that our radiators
> have a long neck. Both those changes have reduced my problem of very hig=
h
> overheating and resulting boiling over. In addition, when my water gauge
> shows 212 degrees the water temperature is actually 30 degrees less or
> approximately 185 degrees. Also, I am not boiling over and loosing
> coolant. Nevertheless, the engine water temperature is still spiking to
> 210 plus degrees true when coming off highway speeds.
>
>
>
> In my review of various sites, the radiator equipment suppliers and other=
s
> are recommending increasing the pressure in the classic car systems to 15
> psi plus, and coolant recovery tanks =E2=80=9Cif your coolant system, rad=
iator,
> hoses etc. is new=E2=80=9D and therefore can hold the pressure. Unfortun=
ately, I
> have not found any maker of a 1 inch depth x 2.33 inch diameter radiator
> cap except our 7 psi cap so I can try such a pressurized system.
>
>
>
> Another suggestion on an older discussion at the British Car Forum
> indicated some of the Ontario car owners had switched to Evans Waterless
> Coolant rather than 50/50 coolant water mixture.
>
>
>
> I still have no idea why a minority of our group has overheating
> problems. More ideas?
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> Bob Begani 67 BJ8
>
>
>
> *From:* Healeys <healeys-bounces@autox.team.net> *On Behalf Of *Michael
> Salter via Healeys
> *Sent:* Saturday, March 6, 2021 12:20 PM
> *To:* Bob Spidell <bspidell@comcast.net>
> *Cc:* healeys@autox.team.net
> *Subject:* Re: [Healeys] 100 water pumps
>
>
>
> Yes Bob, there is something wrong with our assumptions regarding the
> cooling system not being "large" enough.
>
> My wifes Maxima is around 300 HP and the radiator has less area than the
> 100. Certainly it has a couple of very effective electric fans but they
> really don't cut in very often unless you have the AC on.
>
> I'm suspicious of the rate of circulation but I've talked to Larry Varley
> about this subject and he indicated that increasing the size of the water
> pump annular orifice didn't make much difference when he tried it.
>
>
>
> M
>
>
>
> M
>
>
>
> On Sat, Mar 6, 2021 at 11:42 AM Bob Spidell <bspidell@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> I sold my late father's 1955 Thunderbird to my BFF. These cars have a ver=
y
> similar problem to Healeys overheating, esp. at idle. When Ford stuffed t=
he
> 292ci Y-Block into the T-Bird, they found the engine was (essentially) to=
o
> short for the long-hooded car, so they 'engineered'--I use the term
> loosely--a cast iron spacer to move the fan closer to the radiator. The
> spacer had the added 'benefit' of severely limiting coolant flow through
> the pump and radiator; there are some aftermarket fixes and my friend,
> after doing the usual radiator re-core, better fan, etc. installed both a
> better pump (larger vanes) and a re-engineered spacer. Attached pic is no=
t
> of the spacer he used--I can't find the link to it--but it shows the
> general idea (Ford basically put a 'dam' in the cooling system to block
> flow, and the improved spacers mostly remove it). It appears this approac=
h
> has improved cooling, though the engine probably still gets warm if it ha=
s
> to sit too long at idle. Link is to one of the improved pumps:
>
>
> https://www.classictbird.com/Water-Pump-Modified-for-Higher-Output-1-Per-=
car/productinfo/8501HO/
>
> Anyways, after doing all the usual stuff to increase cooling, esp. on my
> BJ8, I've wondered if a similar approach would work on Healeys. Their pum=
ps
> have very small vanes, and the cavity in which the vanes operate seems
> pretty small for such a large lump of cast iron (I'm guessing an uprated
> radiator core won't help much if the coolant flow is still hampered; at
> least, that's what I've found). This is probably not an option as, of
> course, our engines don't have a similar spacer to be improved upon, and =
it
> would be a major task to increase both the cavity's size and the pump (bu=
t
> I can dream).
>
> ps. The overheating issue with Healeys is usually attributed to too big o=
f
> an engine in too small of an engine compartment, and too little airflow.
> But, the engine bay in an old T-Bird is huge by comparison--and the engin=
e
> not terribly larger in displacement--and still suffers the same problem.
>
> Bob
>
>
>
>
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<div dir=3D"auto">Thanks for all that Bob.=C2=A0<div dir=3D"auto">One comme=
nt regarding increasing the cooling system pressure.=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D=
"auto">I rebuild quite a few Healey water pumps and can say unequivocally t=
hat the seal type used in both the early and late style of 6 cylinder pump =
will not handle much more than 7 p.s.i.=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto">I woul=
d not recommend trying that approach.=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></di=
v><div dir=3D"auto">M</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D=
"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Sat., Mar. 6, 2021, 4:58 p.m. , <<a href=
=3D"mailto:rfbegani@gmail.com";>rfbegani@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><=
blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px=
#ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"pu=
rple" style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><div class=3D"m_-4589831803634194626Wo=
rdSection1"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:14.0pt;font-fam=
ily:"Arial",sans-serif">Bob & Mike:<u></u><u></u></span></p><=
p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Ari=
al",sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=
<span style=3D"font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Y=
ou both may have seen my requests on overheating of my BJ8 and the response=
from the group.=C2=A0 As a result, I purchased an infrared thermometer to =
determine if my water gauge was giving accurate readings.=C2=A0 The thermom=
eter gun told me that my water gauge was 30 degrees higher than the tempera=
ture of the sensor attached to the block.=C2=A0 At the same time, I noticed=
my gauge will show 120 degrees at rest instead of going down to 90 degrees=
which would indicate a 30-degree high reading.=C2=A0 In May when I leave f=
or cool Michigan, I will send the gauge to Nisonger to be rebuilt.<u></u><u=
></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:14.0pt;font=
-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p cla=
ss=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial&qu=
ot;,sans-serif">I began to test the temperature of the water going through =
the cooling system at the inlet to and outlet from the block, inlet and out=
let to the radiator and the upper and lower hoses while the engine is runni=
ng at idle and at 2-3 Thousand rpm.=C2=A0 The chart I created to record the=
se temperatures allowed me to produce observations or averages because the =
flow of the water is dependent upon the rpms of the engine.=C2=A0 The engin=
e has overheated all of the 40 years I have owned it and has only 1000 mile=
s on the new speedo since rebuilding to 20 over. <u></u><u></u></span></p><=
p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Ari=
al",sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=
<span style=3D"font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">A=
t the radiator inlet 134 outlet 85 at high rpms with electric fan operating=
.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:1=
4.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 inlet 103 outlet 94 at idle rpms with =
electric fan operating. <u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><sp=
an style=3D"font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><u><=
/u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:=
14.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">The above temperatures are=
recorded at the inlet and all along the hoses.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p =
class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial=
",sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><s=
pan style=3D"font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">The=
se temperatures indicate the pump is circulating water with sufficient gall=
ons to cool the engine only when the engine is at high rpms.=C2=A0 At idle =
the pump does not circulate sufficient water to keep the engine cool.=C2=A0=
This is especially true when you have been operating the engine at high sp=
eed and come down to 30 =E2=80=93 40 mph and stop and go traffic.=C2=A0 May=
be the real answer is to install an electric pump for constant cooling wate=
r?<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:=
14.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span=
></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:14.0pt;font-family:&qu=
ot;Arial",sans-serif">In the past week, I have installed a large Dorma=
n coolant recovery tank and a new 7 psi 1 inch radiator cap because I learn=
ed that our radiators have a long neck.=C2=A0 Both those changes have reduc=
ed my problem of very high overheating and resulting boiling over.=C2=A0 In=
addition, when my water gauge shows 212 degrees the water temperature is a=
ctually 30 degrees less or approximately 185 degrees.=C2=A0 Also, I am not =
boiling over and loosing coolant.=C2=A0 Nevertheless, the engine water temp=
erature is still spiking to 210 plus degrees true when coming off highway s=
peeds.=C2=A0 <u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D=
"font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u=
></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:14.0pt;font=
-family:"Arial",sans-serif">In my review of various sites, the ra=
diator equipment suppliers and others are recommending increasing the press=
ure in the classic car systems to 15 psi plus, and coolant recovery tanks =
=E2=80=9Cif your coolant system, radiator, hoses etc. is new=E2=80=9D and t=
herefore can hold the pressure.=C2=A0 Unfortunately, I have not found any m=
aker of a 1 inch depth x 2.33 inch diameter radiator cap except our 7 psi c=
ap so I can try such a pressurized system.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial"=
;,sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span s=
tyle=3D"font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Another =
suggestion on an older discussion at the British Car Forum indicated some o=
f the Ontario car owners had switched to Evans Waterless Coolant rather tha=
n 50/50 coolant water mixture.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNorma=
l"><span style=3D"font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif=
"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font=
-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">I still have no idea=
why a minority of our group has overheating problems.=C2=A0 More ideas?<u>=
</u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:14.0p=
t;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Ar=
ial",sans-serif">Regards,<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNorma=
l"><span style=3D"font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif=
"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font=
-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Bob Begani 67 BJ8 <u=
></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:14.0=
pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p=
><div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in=
0in 0in"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Healeys <<a href=3D"mailto=
:healeys-bounces@autox.team.net" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">heale=
ys-bounces@autox.team.net</a>> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Michael Salter via He=
aleys<br><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, March 6, 2021 12:20 PM<br><b>To:</b> Bob Sp=
idell <<a href=3D"mailto:bspidell@comcast.net"; target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"=
noreferrer">bspidell@comcast.net</a>><br><b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:he=
aleys@autox.team.net" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">healeys@autox.te=
am.net</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Healeys] 100 water pumps<u></u><u></u></=
p></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><div><div><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial"=
;,sans-serif">Yes Bob, there is something wrong with our assumptions regard=
ing the cooling system not being "large" enough. </span><span sty=
le=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"Mso=
Normal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-=
serif">My wifes Maxima is around 300 HP and the radiator has less area than=
the 100. Certainly it has a couple of very effective electric fans but the=
y really don't cut in very often unless you have the AC on.</span><span=
style=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><u></u><u></u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D=
"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",s=
ans-serif">I'm suspicious of the rate of circulation but I've talke=
d to Larry Varley about this subject and he indicated that increasing the s=
ize of the water pump annular orifice didn't make much difference when =
he tried it.</span><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><u></u><u></u></span></=
p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><u></u=
>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"f=
ont-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">M</span><span sty=
le=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS""><u></u><u></u=
></span></p></div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0=
pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS""><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p></=
div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family=
:"Comic Sans MS"">M<u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div><p class=
=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">On =
Sat, Mar 6, 2021 at 11:42 AM Bob Spidell <<a href=3D"mailto:bspidell@com=
cast.net" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">bspidell@comcast.net</a>>=
wrote:<u></u><u></u></p></div><blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left=
:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-rig=
ht:0in"><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-right:0in;margin-bottom=
:12.0pt;margin-left:11.4pt">I sold my late father's 1955 Thunderbird to=
my BFF. These cars have a very similar problem to Healeys overheating, esp=
. at idle. When Ford stuffed the 292ci Y-Block into the T-Bird, they found =
the engine was (essentially) too short for the long-hooded car, so they =
9;engineered'--I use the term loosely--a cast iron spacer to move the f=
an closer to the radiator. The spacer had the added 'benefit' of se=
verely limiting coolant flow through the pump and radiator; there are some =
aftermarket fixes and my friend, after doing the usual radiator re-core, be=
tter fan, etc. installed both a better pump (larger vanes) and a re-enginee=
red spacer. Attached pic is not of the spacer he used--I can't find the=
link to it--but it shows the general idea (Ford basically put a 'dam&#=
39; in the cooling system to block flow, and the improved spacers mostly re=
move it). It appears this approach has improved cooling, though the engine =
probably still gets warm if it has to sit too long at idle. Link is to one =
of the improved pumps:<br><br><a href=3D"https://www.classictbird.com/Water=
-Pump-Modified-for-Higher-Output-1-Per-car/productinfo/8501HO/" target=3D"_=
blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">https://www.classictbird.com/Water-Pump-Modified-=
for-Higher-Output-1-Per-car/productinfo/8501HO/</a><br><br>Anyways, after d=
oing all the usual stuff to increase cooling, esp. on my BJ8, I've wond=
ered if a similar approach would work on Healeys. Their pumps have very sma=
ll vanes, and the cavity in which the vanes operate seems pretty small for =
such a large lump of cast iron (I'm guessing an uprated radiator core w=
on't help much if the coolant flow is still hampered; at least, that=
9;s what I've found). This is probably not an option as, of course, our=
engines don't have a similar spacer to be improved upon, and it would =
be a major task to increase both the cavity's size and the pump (but I =
can dream).<br><br>ps. The overheating issue with Healeys is usually attrib=
uted to too big of an engine in too small of an engine compartment, and too=
little airflow. But, the engine bay in an old T-Bird is huge by comparison=
--and the engine not terribly larger in displacement--and still suffers the=
same problem.<br><br>Bob <u></u><u></u></p></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" st=
yle=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p></blockquote></div></d=
iv></div></blockquote></div>
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