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Re: [Healeys] British car fasteners

To: healeys@autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Healeys] British car fasteners
From: Bob Spidell <bspidell@comcast.net>
Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2020 09:04:25 -0700
Delivered-to: mharc@autox.team.net
Delivered-to: healeys@autox.team.net
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As an aside, there's a WWII story--true AFAIK--about Packard building 
the (fantastic) Merlin engine under license from RR. The Packard 
engineers where aghast to find that the Merlin used over 400 different 
fasteners; they re-engineered the engine to use about 100 (or less).

Another tale I heard once was about an American Air Force team doing a 
flying exhibition in England with F-86 Sabres. One of the inspection 
panels came loose, and one of the ground crew casually walked out, 
closed it and fastened a quarter-turn screw with a screwdriver. The Brit 
military personnel in attendance were astounded; for their planes, only 
a crew chief could tackle such a job, required re-fitting and 
re-attaching several pieces of skin, several different fasteners, and a 
ream of paperwork.

Bob

On 6/1/2020 8:26 AM, Hap Polk wrote:
>
> Curtis,
>
> Thank you for putting together such a definitive treatise on the 
> fascinating history of British threaded fasteners and the industry?s 
> conversion to U.S. standards. The British experience is a precursor to 
> the U.S. slow walking conversion to ISO standards. Looking at 
> Austin-Healey products, one might think that the Brits were more 
> accommodating to having a variety of approaches than their U.S. 
> cousins. Might be a cultural thing.
>
> I, we, would like to read a supplemental discussion of the relative 
> merits of the 55 degree rounded roots and peaks thread design versus 
> the U.S. standard of 60 degree with ?V? roots and peaks. What I 
> remember from past discussions regarding the overall performance 
> characteristics of modern thread designs; including thread stripping, 
> pull out strength, and fatigue resistance favored Whitworth first, 
> then U.S. standard, with ISO bringing up the rear. Is that your belief?
>
> Will you possibly in a later effort describe the best uses of the 
> various fasteners depending on the materials being joined, loads and 
> their direction, vibration, load cycling, etcetera in selecting  fine 
> versus course thread; bolt shoulder, head, bearing surface and 
> wrenching method, and the many other criteria that enter into fastener 
> selection.
>
> You added to the points to consider when judging a car?s concours ?as 
> born? condition. Thank you. However, would you consider expressing 
> your opinion as to which specific fastened joints a Healey owner might 
> want to use a more modern substitute fastener to make  a more reliable 
> daily driver?
>
> Thank you again for your authoritative contribution.
>
> Hap
>
>


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    As an aside, there's a WWII story--true AFAIK--about Packard
    building the (fantastic) Merlin engine under license from RR. The
    Packard engineers where aghast to find that the Merlin used over 400
    different fasteners; they re-engineered the engine to use about 100
    (or less).<br>
    <br>
    Another tale I heard once was about an American Air Force team doing
    a flying exhibition in England with F-86 Sabres. One of the
    inspection panels came loose, and one of the ground crew casually
    walked out, closed it and fastened a quarter-turn screw with a
    screwdriver. The Brit military personnel in attendance were
    astounded; for their planes, only a crew chief could tackle such a
    job, required re-fitting and re-attaching several pieces of skin,
    several different fasteners, and a ream of paperwork.<br>
    <br>
    Bob<br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 6/1/2020 8:26 AM, Hap Polk wrote:<br>
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        <p class="MsoNormal">Curtis,<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal">Thank you for putting together such a
          definitive treatise on the fascinating history of British
          threaded fasteners and the industry?s conversion to U.S.
          standards. The British experience is a precursor to the U.S.
          slow walking conversion to ISO standards. Looking at
          Austin-Healey products, one might think that the Brits were
          more accommodating to having a variety of approaches than
          their U.S. cousins. Might be a cultural thing.<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal">I, we, would like to read a supplemental
          discussion of the relative merits of the 55 degree rounded
          roots and peaks thread design versus the U.S. standard of 60
          degree with ?V? roots and peaks. What I remember from past
          discussions regarding the overall performance characteristics
          of modern thread designs; including thread stripping, pull out
          strength, and fatigue resistance favored Whitworth first, then
          U.S. standard, with ISO bringing up the rear. Is that your
          belief?<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal">Will you possibly in a later effort
          describe the best uses of the various fasteners depending on
          the materials being joined, loads and their direction,
          vibration, load cycling, etcetera in selecting  fine versus
          course thread; bolt shoulder, head, bearing surface and
          wrenching method, and the many other criteria that enter into
          fastener selection.<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal">You added to the points to consider when
          judging a car?s concours ?as born? condition. Thank you.
          However, would you consider expressing your opinion as to
          which specific fastened joints a Healey owner might want to
          use a more modern substitute fastener to make  a more reliable
          daily driver?<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal">Thank you again for your authoritative
          contribution.<o:p></o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal">Hap<o:p></o:p></p>
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