Re: [Healeys] Healey 100-4 timing

[Kees Oudesluijs <coudesluijs@chello.nl>]

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--===============4652998546197773925==
 boundary="------------AE9E27812212B3AD7354ADEC"
Content-Language: nl

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------AE9E27812212B3AD7354ADEC
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Sorry should read max advance with a/vacuum retard system/

Kees Oudesluijs

Op 3-11-2018 om 09:48 schreef Kees Oudesluijs:
>
> The maximum advantage should be limited to prevent damage to the big 
> end bearings. In general, depending on the engine, this is around 32° 
> to 35° /*total*/ advance. The distributor advance system with the 
> weights and springs is limited to about 17°, the vacuüm advance or 
> retard (depending on engine) may produce another 5° or so advance or 
> retardation. This means that when the ignition of an engine with a 
> vacuum advance system is set at say 10° static, the maximum advance is 
> a safe 32° at anything over about 2500rpm.
>
> Kees Oudesluijs
>
>
>
> Op 3-11-2018 om 03:05 schreef Michael Salter:
>> Thanks for your input on ignition timing Michael.
>> I have always found the factory specs to be a little confusing.
>> They state 6 degrees BTDC as the timing (which I presume to be 
>> "static") and then state that the distributor produces 16 - 18 
>> degrees at 2000 RPM (distributor speed) which I figure to be 32 -36 
>> degrees at 4000 engine RPM.
>> I interpret that to produce 6 + 34 (2 x 17) degrees BTDC at 4000 
>> engine RPM for a total of 40 degrees which sounds like an awful lot.
>> My engine does not sound at all happy with 40 degrees even with 110 
>> octane!!
>> I'm wondering if I have been over thinking this process and the 
>> stated advance is meant to be "at idle" with the vacuum connected 
>> (not normal practice as far as I was taught) which would add 6 
>> degrees of vacuum advance which would vanish at full throttle 
>> producing a net of 34 degrees over 4000 at full throttle.
>> I have been setting the timing to 32 degrees BTDC with the vacuum 
>> disconnected at 4000 RPM and the engine runs fey well and very cool, 
>> in fact too cool without a 180 degree thermostat.
>> I am running 8.3:1 compressions with an M cam.
>>
>> M
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 9:16 PM Michael Oritt <michael.oritt@gmail.com 
>>
>>     Wayne--
>>
>>     Exactly right--it is total advance that matters and I arrived at
>>     that number by gradually increasing advance and seeing the effect
>>     upon water temperature at speed and under full load.  Anything
>>     more and the car would begin to overheat.  A bit too much less
>>     advance and performance fell off.
>>
>>     BTW I am running a DW "fast street" cam and tubular header and a
>>     Mallory non-vacuum advance distributor fired with their Unilite
>>     module.  I too have a Smitty's five-speed and the Toyota box, 180
>>     XAS's and 3.54 diff set give me about 72-73 mph at 3K rpm's indicated
>>
>>     Best--Michael Oritt
>>
>>     On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 6:03 PM Wayne Schultz <waschu2@gmail.com
>>
>>         Thanks to Michael and others I am going to stick with 34 - 35
>>         degrees total advance for now. What, I think this means, is
>>         that the advance at idle is secondary and not as important as
>>         total advance. Cruising with the the Toyota five speed or the
>>         original overdrive on the highway is right in the 3K RPM
>>         range so I think this the perfect RPM to limit total advance.
>>         I might make a run to my local airport and buy some 100LL
>>         fuel. I have worked in aviation since 1967 so I have a few
>>         friendsð???
>>
>>         _______________________________________________
>>         Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>         Suggested annual donation  $12.75
>>
>>         Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys
>>         http://autox.team.net/archive
>>
>>         http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys
>>
>>         Unsubscribe/Manage:
>>         http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/michael.oritt@gmail.com
>>
>>     _______________________________________________
>>     Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html
>>     Suggested annual donation  $12.75
>>
>>     Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys
>>     http://autox.team.net/archive
>>
>>     http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys
>>
>>     Unsubscribe/Manage:
>>     http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/michaelsalter@gmail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Support Team.Nethttp://www.team.net/donate.html
>> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
>>
>> Archive:http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys  http://autox.team.net/archive
>>
>> Healeys@autox.team.net
>> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys
>>
>> Unsubscribe/Manage:http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/coudesluijs@chello.nl
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation  $12.75
>
> Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys http://autox.team.net/archive
>
> Healeys@autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys
>
> Unsubscribe/Manage: 
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/coudesluijs@chello.nl
>

--------------AE9E27812212B3AD7354ADEC
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

<html>
  <head>
    <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
  </head>
  <body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
    <p>Sorry should read max advance with a<i> vacuum retard system</i></p>
    <p>Kees Oudesluijs<br>
    </p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Op 3-11-2018 om 09:48 schreef Kees
      Oudesluijs:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:86b12d3e-f121-3397-1f17-6f390a81b400@chello.nl">
      <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
      <p>The maximum advantage should be limited to prevent damage to
        the big end bearings. In general, depending on the engine, this
        is around 32° to 35° <i><b>total</b></i> advance. The
        distributor advance system with the weights and springs is
        limited to about 17°, the vacuüm advance or retard (depending on
        engine) may produce another 5° or so advance or retardation.
        This means that when the ignition of an engine with a vacuum
        advance system is set at say 10° static, the maximum advance is
        a safe 32° at anything over about 2500rpm.</p>
      <p>Kees Oudesluijs</p>
      <p><br>
      </p>
      <p><br>
      </p>
      <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Op 3-11-2018 om 03:05 schreef Michael
        Salter:<br>
      </div>
      <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAB3i7LLxqZmUttWxBBuU6FkwBqKhTehbOvzTbk4n0fTa1w1Qvg@mail.gmail.com">
        <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html;
          charset=UTF-8">
        <div dir="ltr">
          <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans&#xA;
            ms,sans-serif;font-size:small">Thanks for your input on
            ignition timing Michael. <br>
          </div>
          <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans&#xA;
            ms,sans-serif;font-size:small">I have always found the
            factory specs to be a little confusing.</div>
          <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans&#xA;
            ms,sans-serif;font-size:small">They state 6 degrees BTDC as
            the timing (which I presume to be "static") and then state
            that the distributor produces 16 - 18 degrees at 2000 RPMÂ 
            (distributor speed) which I figure to be 32 -36 degrees at
            4000 engine RPM.</div>
          <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans&#xA;
            ms,sans-serif;font-size:small">I interpret that to produce 6
            + 34 (2 x 17) degrees BTDC at 4000 engine RPM for a total of
            40 degrees which sounds like an awful lot.</div>
          <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans&#xA;
            ms,sans-serif;font-size:small">My engine does not sound at
            all happy with 40 degrees even with 110 octane!!</div>
          <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans&#xA;
            ms,sans-serif;font-size:small">I'm wondering if I have been
            over thinking this process and the stated advance is meant
            to be "at idle" with the vacuum connected (not normal
            practice as far as I was taught) which would add 6 degrees
            of vacuum advance which would vanish at full throttle
            producing a net of 34 degrees over 4000 at full throttle.<br>
          </div>
          <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans&#xA;
            ms,sans-serif;font-size:small">I have been setting the
            timing to 32 degrees BTDC with the vacuum disconnected at
            4000 RPM and the engine runs fey well and very cool, in fact
            too cool without a 180 degree thermostat.<br>
          </div>
          <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans&#xA;
            ms,sans-serif;font-size:small">I am running 8.3:1
            compressions with an M cam.</div>
          <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans&#xA;
            ms,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br>
          </div>
          <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans&#xA;
            ms,sans-serif;font-size:small">M<br>
          </div>
          <div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans&#xA;
            ms,sans-serif;font-size:small"> <br>
          </div>
        </div>
        <br>
        <div class="gmail_quote">
          <div dir="ltr">On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 9:16 PM Michael Oritt
            &lt;<a href="mailto:michael.oritt@gmail.com";
              moz-do-not-send="true">michael.oritt@gmail.com</a>&gt;
            wrote:<br>
          </div>
          <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0&#xA;
            .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
            <div dir="ltr">
              <div class="gmail_default" style="color:#3333ff">Wayne--</div>
              <div class="gmail_default" style="color:#3333ff"><br>
              </div>
              <div class="gmail_default" style="color:#3333ff">Exactly
                right--it is total advance that matters and I arrived at
                that number by gradually increasing advance and seeing
                the effect upon water temperature at speed and under
                full load.  Anything more and the car would begin to
                overheat.  A bit too much less advance and performance
                fell off.  </div>
              <div class="gmail_default" style="color:#3333ff"><br>
              </div>
              <div class="gmail_default" style="color:#3333ff">BTW I am
                running a DW "fast street" cam and tubular header and a
                Mallory non-vacuum advance distributor fired with their
                Unilite module.  I too have a Smitty's five-speed and
                the Toyota box, 180 XAS's and 3.54 diff set give me
                about 72-73 mph at 3K rpm's indicated</div>
              <div class="gmail_default" style="color:#3333ff"><br>
              </div>
              <div class="gmail_default" style="color:#3333ff">Best--Michael
                Oritt</div>
            </div>
            <br>
            <div class="gmail_quote">
              <div dir="ltr">On Fri, Nov 2, 2018 at 6:03 PM Wayne
                Schultz &lt;<a href="mailto:waschu2@gmail.com";
                  target="_blank" 
moz-do-not-send="true">waschu2@gmail.com</a>&gt;
                wrote:<br>
              </div>
              <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0&#xA;
                .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
                <div dir="ltr">Thanks to Michael and others I am going
                  to stick with 34 - 35 degrees total advance for now.
                  What, I think this means, is that the advance at idle
                  is secondary and not as important as total advance.
                  Cruising with the the Toyota five speed or the
                  original overdrive on the highway is right in the 3K
                  RPM range so I think this the perfect RPM to limit
                  total advance. I might make a run to my local airport
                  and buy some 100LL fuel. I have worked in aviation
                  since 1967 so I have a few friendsð??? 
                  <div><br>
                  </div>
                </div>
                _______________________________________________<br>
                Support Team.Net <a
                  href="http://www.team.net/donate.html";
                  rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
                  moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
                Suggested annual donation  $12.75<br>
                <br>
                Archive: <a
                  href="http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys";
                  rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
                  
moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys</a>
                <a href="http://autox.team.net/archive"; rel="noreferrer"
                  target="_blank" 
moz-do-not-send="true">http://autox.team.net/archive</a><br>
                <br>
                <a href="mailto:Healeys@autox.team.net"; target="_blank"
                  moz-do-not-send="true">Healeys@autox.team.net</a><br>
                <a href="http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys";
                  rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
                  
moz-do-not-send="true">http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys</a><br>
                <br>
                Unsubscribe/Manage: <a
href="http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/michael.oritt@gmail.com";
                  rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
                  
moz-do-not-send="true">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/michael.oritt@gmail.com</a><br>
                <br>
              </blockquote>
            </div>
            _______________________________________________<br>
            Support Team.Net <a href="http://www.team.net/donate.html";
              rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" 
moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
            Suggested annual donation  $12.75<br>
            <br>
            Archive: <a href="http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys";
              rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" 
moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys</a>
            <a href="http://autox.team.net/archive"; rel="noreferrer"
              target="_blank" 
moz-do-not-send="true">http://autox.team.net/archive</a><br>
            <br>
            <a href="mailto:Healeys@autox.team.net"; target="_blank"
              moz-do-not-send="true">Healeys@autox.team.net</a><br>
            <a href="http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys";
              rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" 
moz-do-not-send="true">http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys</a><br>
            <br>
            Unsubscribe/Manage: <a
href="http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/michaelsalter@gmail.com";
              rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" 
moz-do-not-send="true">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/michaelsalter@gmail.com</a><br>
            <br>
          </blockquote>
        </div>
        <br>
        <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
        <pre class="moz-quote-pre" 
wrap="">_______________________________________________

Archive: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" 
href="http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys"; 
moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys</a> <a 
class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://autox.team.net/archive"; 
moz-do-not-send="true">http://autox.team.net/archive</a>

<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Healeys@autox.team.net"; 
moz-do-not-send="true">Healeys@autox.team.net</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" 
href="http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys"; 
moz-do-not-send="true">http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys</a>


</pre>
      </blockquote>
      <br>
      <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
      <pre class="moz-quote-pre" 
wrap="">_______________________________________________

Archive: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" 
href="http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys";>http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys</a>
 <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" 
href="http://autox.team.net/archive";>http://autox.team.net/archive</a>

<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" 
href="mailto:Healeys@autox.team.net";>Healeys@autox.team.net</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" 
href="http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys";>http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys</a>


</pre>
    </blockquote>
  </body>
</html>

--------------AE9E27812212B3AD7354ADEC--

--===============4652998546197773925==
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline

_______________________________________________

Archive: http://www.team.net/pipermail/healeys http://autox.team.net/archive

Healeys@autox.team.net
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys



--===============4652998546197773925==--