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Oil pressure is not controlled by the oil pump, but by the pressure relief =
valve. A high capacity pump will provide more volume at lower engine speeds=
and so the pressure will stay higher at idle and lower speeds, but the rel=
ief valve will still set the higher limit of pressure.
You can mess around with shims and such to increase the relief pressure, bu=
t high pressure can also be detrimental since pressures above about 65 psi =
will tend to erode the bearing surfaces.
Bill Lawrence
BN1 #554
________________________________
From: Healeys <healeys-bounces@autox.team.net> on behalf of Bob Spidell <bs=
pidell@comcast.net>
Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2018 6:16:44 AM
To: healeys@autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Healeys] oil pump
It's kinda like blood pressure. Except, lower BP is better.
On 10/30/2018 6:55 PM, Engl wrote:
Hi Ed
Indeed, oil pressure on your car (still think of it as your car!) is great =
as you indicate.
Bob England
r@sasktel.net>> wrote:
Good afternoon
As with Bruce and Bob at rebuild of a BJ8 engine I added DWR hcpump in 200=
0, although I sold the car in 2016, I assume the current owner will verif=
y that oil pressure during driving still ranges from 55 to 60 psi and at i=
dle 20-25psi. As Michael has stated if the correct bearing clearances were=
met during rebuild there should be no issues.
Cheers
Ed
E.A. Driver
Web master Saskatchewan British Car Club
Saskatoon, Saskatchewan
Canada
On 30/10/2018 9:52 AM, Bruce Steele wrote:
I echo Bob=92s comments. I=92ve had the DWR high capacity pump for years.
Bruce Steele
Brea, CA
1960 BN7
From: Healeys [mailto:healeys-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Bob Spid=
ell
Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2018 7:17 AM
Subject: Re: [Healeys] oil pump
I'll offer what I know/have heard*. I have the 'high capacity' type in my =
BJ8, which is what the DWR techs/sales people recommended for a road car. =
Older 6-cyl cars had a rotor type pump. They (the rotor type) are supposed=
to be more efficient--i.e. they pump more oil--at lower RPMs. At some poi=
nt it was discovered, probably from service bay repairs, that this type of =
pump put an excessive shear load on the bevel gears on the cam that drive t=
he pump, causing them to wear out. Later cars started getting the gear typ=
e pump, which is less efficient at lower RPMs but puts less of a load on th=
e cam, and is probably less expensive to manufacture as well (esp. if the g=
ears are the sintered iron variety). I think the bevel gears on the cams w=
ere re-engineered, IIRC they got an additional tooth to spread the load.
The Welch HC pump is the rotor type. I did a full engine rebuild and insta=
lled the DWR HC pump; I didn't notice any pressure change worth mentioning-=
-I 'gained' 15 PSI at idle when I had my gauge overhauled--but the 'high ca=
pacity' I believe refers to volume rather than pressure (which, of course, =
is mostly dictated by engine speed). The 'standard type' pump is a gear t=
ype, hence it's more appropriate for high-RPM race engines as pump flow is =
proportional to RPM, and at 6K RPM or more you'll get plenty of oil with le=
ss load from the gear type.
I'm not positive, but if you look at the photos closely, you can see the 'g=
allery plug' on the top of the case. I suppose it allows inspection of the=
innards of the pump without having to break the case. I believe it's thre=
aded so not likely to pop out. If you're getting a new pump you'll likely =
need a new drive shaft and, surprisingly, DWR sells it cheaper than our (US=
) vendors sell it at (I think they might import the DWR shaft).
* apply appropriate grains of salt
Bob
an@alexarevel.plus.com> wrote:
Hi,
Has anyone got the Denis Welch oil pump ENG672M? See:-
https://www.bighealey.co.uk/performance-parts/austin-healey/engines/3000-bo=
ttom-end?page=3D3
Their text:- =93Heat treated castings for longer life and removable gallery=
plugs to be sure it is clean are advantages of both types of oil pumps we =
offer. We recommend the high capacity for all road engines using a standard=
type crank up to 6000 rpm and the standard pump for race engines, steel cr=
anks or anything over 6000 rpm. Both are precision machined and assembled i=
n-house to control the highest quality.
- ENG672 is the standard type.
- ENG672M is the high capacity pump.=94
What are =93removable gallery plugs=94?
Is it just me or is the above a bit counter-intuitive? =93High capacity=94 =
for road cars and =93standard=94 for race engines? Surely the highest capac=
ity is needed where the engine is working hardest ie racing?
And don=92t I remember that, with the standard BMC pumps, the older type is=
reckoned to be better than the newer type? Is this something similar to De=
nis Welch=92s two pumps?
Anyhow, if anyone=92s got one=85..what=92s it like? Did the oil pressure im=
prove at all?
I=92m guessing that most people will have fitted one as part of a big rebui=
ld thus they won=92t have straightforward =93before and after=94 comparison=
s. I=92m thinking of fitting mine to my engine as part of a small winter pr=
oject and hope I can squeeze a few more psi into the system.
--_000_DM6PR07MB4538BC58F33DECFD1ED290A8A5CE0DM6PR07MB4538namp_
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<div id=3D"divtagdefaultwrapper" style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:#000000;font=
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<p style=3D"margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0">Oil pressure is not controlled by=
the oil pump, but by the pressure relief valve. A high capacity pump will =
provide more volume at lower engine speeds and so the pressure will stay hi=
gher at idle and lower speeds, but
the relief valve will still set the higher limit of pressure.</p>
<p style=3D"margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0"><br>
</p>
<p style=3D"margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0">You can mess around with shims an=
d such to increase the relief pressure, but high pressure can also be =
detrimental since pressures above about 65 psi will tend to erode=
the bearing surfaces.</p>
<p style=3D"margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0"><br>
</p>
<p style=3D"margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0">Bill Lawrence</p>
<p style=3D"margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0">BN1 #554 </p>
</div>
<hr style=3D"display:inline-block;width:98%" tabindex=3D"-1">
<div id=3D"divRplyFwdMsg" dir=3D"ltr"><font face=3D"Calibri, sans-serif" st=
yle=3D"font-size:11pt" color=3D"#000000"><b>From:</b> Healeys <healeys-b=
ounces@autox.team.net> on behalf of Bob Spidell <bspidell@comcast.net=
><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, October 31, 2018 6:16:44 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> healeys@autox.team.net<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Healeys] oil pump</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div style=3D"background-color:#FFFFFF">
<p>It's kinda like blood pressure. Except, lower BP is better.<br>
</p>
<br>
<div class=3D"x_moz-cite-prefix">On 10/30/2018 6:55 PM, Engl wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">Hi Ed
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Indeed, oil pressure on your car (still think of it as your car!) is g=
reat as you indicate. <br>
<br>
<div id=3D"x_AppleMailSignature" dir=3D"ltr">Bob England</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr"><br>
On Oct 30, 2018, at 2:01 PM, E.A. Driver <<a href=3D"mailto:edriver@sask=
tel.net">edriver@sasktel.net</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div class=3D"x_moz-cite-prefix">Good afternoon<br>
As with Bruce and Bob at rebuild of a BJ8 engine I added DWR hcpump i=
n 2000, although I sold the car in 2016, I assume the current owner&n=
bsp; will verify that oil pressure during driving still ranges from 5=
5 to 60 psi and at idle 20-25psi. As Michael has stated
if the correct bearing clearances were met during rebuild there should be =
no issues.<br>
Cheers<br>
Ed<br>
<br>
E.A. Driver<br>
Web master Saskatchewan British Car Club<br>
Saskatoon, Saskatchewan<br>
Canada<br>
<br>
<br>
On 30/10/2018 9:52 AM, Bruce Steele wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
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<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><span style=3D"">I echo Bob=92s comments. I=
=92ve had the DWR high capacity pump for years.</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><span style=3D""> </span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><span style=3D"">Bruce Steele</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><span style=3D"">Brea, CA</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><span style=3D"">1960 BN7</span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><span style=3D""> </span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none; border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt; padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"color:windowtext">From:</span></=
b><span style=3D"color:windowtext"> Healeys [<a class=3D"x_moz-txt-link-fre=
etext" href=3D"mailto:healeys-bounces@autox.team.net";>mailto:healeys-bounce=
s@autox.team.net</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Bob Spidell<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, October 30, 2018 7:17 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a class=3D"x_moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href=3D"mailto:healeys@a=
utox.team.net">
healeys@autox.team.net</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Healeys] oil pump</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"> </p>
<p>I'll offer what I know/have heard*. I have the 'high capacity' typ=
e in my BJ8, which is what the DWR techs/sales people recommended for a roa=
d car. Older 6-cyl cars had a rotor type pump. They (the rotor =
type) are supposed to be more efficient--i.e. they
pump more oil--at lower RPMs. At some point it was discovered, proba=
bly from service bay repairs, that this type of pump put an excessive shear=
load on the bevel gears on the cam that drive the pump, causing them to we=
ar out. Later cars started getting the
gear type pump, which is less efficient at lower RPMs but puts less of a l=
oad on the cam, and is probably less expensive to manufacture as well (esp.=
if the gears are the sintered iron variety). I think the bevel gears=
on the cams were re-engineered, IIRC
they got an additional tooth to spread the load.<span style=3D"font-size:1=
2.0pt"></span></p>
<p>The Welch HC pump is the rotor type. I did a full engine rebuild a=
nd installed the DWR HC pump; I didn't notice any pressure change worth men=
tioning--I 'gained' 15 PSI at idle when I had my gauge overhauled--but the =
'high capacity' I believe refers to volume
rather than pressure (which, of course, is mostly dictated by engine speed=
). The 'standard type' pump is a gear type, hence it's more app=
ropriate for high-RPM race engines as pump flow is proportional to RPM, and=
at 6K RPM or more you'll get plenty of oil
with less load from the gear type.</p>
<p>I'm not positive, but if you look at the photos closely, you can see the=
'gallery plug' on the top of the case. I suppose it allows inspectio=
n of the innards of the pump without having to break the case. I beli=
eve it's threaded so not likely to pop out.
If you're getting a new pump you'll likely need a new drive shaft and, sur=
prisingly, DWR sells it cheaper than our (US) vendors sell it at (I think t=
hey might import the DWR shaft).</p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt">* apply appropriate=
grains of salt<br>
<br>
Bob</p>
<div>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal">On 10/30/2018 5:12 AM, <a href=3D"mailto:simon.lac=
hlan@alexarevel.plus.com">
simon.lachlan@alexarevel.plus.com</a> wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt; margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal">Hi,</p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal">Has anyone got the Denis Welch oil pump ENG672M? S=
ee:-</p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal"><a href=3D"https://www.bighealey.co.uk/performance=
-parts/austin-healey/engines/3000-bottom-end?page=3D3">https://www.bigheale=
y.co.uk/performance-parts/austin-healey/engines/3000-bottom-end?page=3D3</a=
></p>
<h2 style=3D"margin-right:0in; margin-bottom:6.0pt; margin-left:0in; line-h=
eight:20.25pt">
Their text:- =93<span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt; font-family:"Arial&quo=
t;,sans-serif; color:#555555">Heat treated castings for longer life and rem=
ovable gallery plugs to be sure it is clean are advantages of both types of=
oil pumps we offer. We recommend the high capacity
for all road engines using a standard type crank up to 6000 rpm and the st=
andard pump for race engines, steel cranks or anything over 6000 rpm. Both =
are precision machined and assembled in-house to control the highest qualit=
y.<br>
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Arial",sans-=
serif; color:#555555">- ENG672 is the standard type.</span><span style=3D"f=
ont-size:9.0pt; font-family:"Arial",sans-serif; color:#555555"><b=
r>
- ENG672M is the high capacity pump.=94</span></h2>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.75pt; line-height:14.4pt=
"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt; font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;=
color:#555555">What are =93removable gallery plugs=94?</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.75pt; line-height:14.4pt=
"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt; font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;=
color:#555555">Is it just me or is the above a bit counter-intuitive? =93H=
igh capacity=94 for road cars and =93standard=94 for race
engines? Surely the highest capacity is needed where the engine is working=
hardest ie racing?
</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.75pt; line-height:14.4pt=
"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt; font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;=
color:#555555">And don=92t I remember that, with the standard BMC pumps, t=
he older type is reckoned to be better than the newer
type? Is this something similar to Denis Welch=92s two pumps?</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.75pt; line-height:14.4pt=
"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt; font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;=
color:#555555">Anyhow, if anyone=92s got one=85..what=92s it like? Did the=
oil pressure improve at all?</span></p>
<p class=3D"x_MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.75pt; line-height:14.4pt=
"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt; font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;=
color:#555555">I=92m guessing that most people will have fitted one as par=
t of a big rebuild thus they won=92t have straightforward
=93before and after=94 comparisons. I=92m thinking of fitting mine to my e=
ngine as part of a small winter project and hope I can squeeze a few more p=
si into the system.
</span></p>
<br>
</blockquote>
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</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
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