| To: | Oudesluys <coudesluijs@chello.nl>, "healeys@autox.team.net" <healeys@autox.team.net> |
|---|---|
| Subject: | Re: [Healeys] Suspension bushings - tangent |
| From: | WILLIAM B LAWRENCE <ynotink@msn.com> |
| Date: | Fri, 23 Oct 2015 02:27:07 +0000 |
| Delivered-to: | mharc@autox.team.net |
| Delivered-to: | healeys@autox.team.net |
| Importance: | Normal |
| References: | <13381348.3991090.1445436754830.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net>, <5627A461.9000006@chello.nl>, <473759676.11426092.1445453362971.JavaMail.zimbra@comcast.net>, <CAB3i7LJq-3GSU5VDcXcP03aKzzZ6vxXcu6Xv0U9-h7an6rxB1g@mail.gmail.com>, <56289876.6060801@cosmos.net.au> <5628B4A2.4020807@earthlink.net>,<5628B6FF.7070809@chello.nl> FILETIME=[50AF3920:01D10D3A] |
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I think I disagree. The main purpose of the tie rod is to keep the engine f=
rom shifting forward and damaging the radiator. It has very little function=
as a shock absorber. Its orientation to the engine center line means there=
is little vibration in that direction. On the other hand the rubber bushin=
gs fail very quickly on exposure to oil and water. if the bushings fail and=
allow the engine to move forward under braking it can do some substantial =
damage. I think Austin probably would have used a more durable material in =
that place if one had been available (and economic). My car is not concours=
and never will be so my emphasis is going to be on durability. I'm definit=
ely going to urethane for this application.
Bill Lawrence
> To: healeys@autox.team.net
> From: coudesluijs@chello.nl
> Date: Thu=2C 22 Oct 2015 12:14:23 +0200
> Subject: Re: [Healeys] Suspension bushings - tangent
>=20
> I do not think so as this also has to work as a vibration damper and=20
> rubber is better in that respect than PU. Perhaps you can fit a sleeve=20
> around it to protect it from oil.
> Kees Oudesluijs
>=20
>=20
> Op 22-10-2015 om 12:04 schreef Bob Haskell:
> > Larry and Michael=2C
> >
> > Would you use urethane bushings for the engine tie rod (lower/rear=20
> > gearbox/OD mount)? Urethane doesn't deteriorate like rubber when oil=20
> > soaked. But it doesn't absorb as much shock loading either.
> >
> > Cheers=2C
> >
> > Bob Haskell
> > AHCA 3000 Mk I registrar
> > http://www.ciahc.org/registry_3000mk1.php
> >
> > On 10/22/2015 04:04 AM=2C Larry Varley wrote:
> >> Absolutely agree with Michael here=2C from past experience I would
> >> completely avoid urethane for any car to replace original rubber bushe=
s.
> >> Its a pity that the correct rubber bushes are not made=2C but I would
> >> still use the reproductions rather than urethane. From an engineering
> >> standpoint urethane has a totally different way of operating to what t=
he
> >> car was originally designed for=2C stretching rubber fixed against ste=
el
> >> surfaces is not the same as rotating urethane on a pin. Has anyone eve=
r
> >> asked any of the urethane bush manufacturers if their products are
> >> approved by current auto manufacturers=2C or if they will accept liabi=
lity
> >> for any damage they will cause? I would prefer to stay with a product
> >> that is as close as possible to the original specification. In closing=
=2C
> >> enlighten me=2C do any current auto manufacturers use urethane as thei=
r
> >> standard suspension bush?
> >> Cheers
> >> Larry Varley
> >>
> >> On 22/10/2015 7:08 AM=2C Michael Salter wrote:
> >>> Bob=2C
> >>> I suspect that I'm not telling you anything that you don't already
> >>> know here BUT:
> >>> I think the critical point is that the original suspension bushes wor=
k
> >>> in the same way that rubber engine mounts are designed to work. The
> >>> steel mounting plates (or in the case of mounts steel tubes) are
> >>> rigidly attached to parts that move relative to each other and that
> >>> movement is accommodated by the flexing of the rubber medium bonded t=
o
> >>> each plate.
> >>> The plastic bushes work more like bearings in that the rotational
> >>> movement is accommodated by rotation of the bolt (shaft) within the
> >>> bush (bearing). All very well while you are flying straight and level=
.
> >>> The problem=2C as I see it=2C is that when angular displacement is
> >>> required=2C as in body roll=2C the plastic bushes must distort and as=
the
> >>> plastic is by necessity relatively rigid=2C when compared to the
> >>> original rubber=2C the loads imparted to the mounting points will be
> >>> substantially higher than that for which they were designed.
> >>> Maybe you will get away with it=2C maybe you won't.=2C I just don't w=
ant
> >>> to be passing you in the opposite direction if you don't!!!!
> >>> Michael S
> >>> BN1 #174 (All rubber bushes :-))
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html
> >> Suggested annual donation $12.75
> >> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> >> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> >>
> >> Healeys@autox.team.net
> >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys
> >>
> >> Unsubscribe/Manage:=20
> >> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/rchaskell@earthlink.net
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html
> > Suggested annual donation $12.75
> > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> >
> > Healeys@autox.team.net
> > http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys
> >
> > Unsubscribe/Manage:=20
> > http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/coudesluijs@chello.nl
> >
> >
> >
> > -----
> > Geen virus gevonden in dit bericht.
> > Gecontroleerd door AVG - www.avg.com
> > Versie: 2015.0.6172 / Virusdatabase: 4450/10869 - datum van uitgifte:=20
> > 10/22/15
> >
> >
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Suggested annual donation $12.75
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
>=20
> Healeys@autox.team.net
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/healeys
>=20
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/ynotink=
@msn.com
>=20
=
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<head>
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<body class=3D'hmmessage'><div dir=3D'ltr'>I think I disagree. The main pur=
pose of the tie rod is to keep the engine from shifting forward and damagin=
g the radiator. It has very little function as a shock absorber. Its orient=
ation to the engine center line means there is little vibration in that dir=
ection. On the other hand the rubber bushings fail very quickly on exposure=
to oil and water. if the bushings fail and allow the engine to move forwar=
d under braking it can do some substantial damage. I think Austin probably =
would have used a more durable material in that place if one had been avail=
able (and economic). My car is not concours and never will be so my emphasi=
s is going to be on durability. I'm definitely going to urethane for this a=
pplication.<div><br></div><div>Bill Lawrence<br><br><div>>=3B To: healeys=
@autox.team.net<br>>=3B From: coudesluijs@chello.nl<br>>=3B Date: Thu=
=2C 22 Oct 2015 12:14:23 +0200<br>>=3B Subject: Re: [Healeys] Suspension =
bushings - tangent<br>>=3B <br>>=3B I do not think so as this also has =
to work as a vibration damper and <br>>=3B rubber is better in that respe=
ct than PU. Perhaps you can fit a sleeve <br>>=3B around it to protect it=
from oil.<br>>=3B Kees Oudesluijs<br>>=3B <br>>=3B <br>>=3B Op 22-=
10-2015 om 12:04 schreef Bob Haskell:<br>>=3B >=3B Larry and Michael=2C=
<br>>=3B >=3B<br>>=3B >=3B Would you use urethane bushings for the =
engine tie rod (lower/rear <br>>=3B >=3B gearbox/OD mount)? Urethane d=
oesn't deteriorate like rubber when oil <br>>=3B >=3B soaked. But it d=
oesn't absorb as much shock loading either.<br>>=3B >=3B<br>>=3B >=
=3B Cheers=2C<br>>=3B >=3B<br>>=3B >=3B Bob Haskell<br>>=3B >=
=3B AHCA 3000 Mk I registrar<br>>=3B >=3B http://www.ciahc.org/registry=
_3000mk1.php<br>>=3B >=3B<br>>=3B >=3B On 10/22/2015 04:04 AM=2C La=
rry Varley wrote:<br>>=3B >=3B>=3B Absolutely agree with Michael here=
=2C from past experience I would<br>>=3B >=3B>=3B completely avoid ur=
ethane for any car to replace original rubber bushes.<br>>=3B >=3B>=
=3B Its a pity that the correct rubber bushes are not made=2C but I would<b=
r>>=3B >=3B>=3B still use the reproductions rather than urethane. Fro=
m an engineering<br>>=3B >=3B>=3B standpoint urethane has a totally d=
ifferent way of operating to what the<br>>=3B >=3B>=3B car was origin=
ally designed for=2C stretching rubber fixed against steel<br>>=3B >=3B=
>=3B surfaces is not the same as rotating urethane on a pin. Has anyone e=
ver<br>>=3B >=3B>=3B asked any of the urethane bush manufacturers if =
their products are<br>>=3B >=3B>=3B approved by current auto manufact=
urers=2C or if they will accept liability<br>>=3B >=3B>=3B for any da=
mage they will cause? I would prefer to stay with a product<br>>=3B >=
=3B>=3B that is as close as possible to the original specification. In cl=
osing=2C<br>>=3B >=3B>=3B enlighten me=2C do any current auto manufac=
turers use urethane as their<br>>=3B >=3B>=3B standard suspension bus=
h?<br>>=3B >=3B>=3B Cheers<br>>=3B >=3B>=3B Larry Varley<br>>=
=3B >=3B>=3B<br>>=3B >=3B>=3B On 22/10/2015 7:08 AM=2C Michael Sa=
lter wrote:<br>>=3B >=3B>=3B>=3B Bob=2C<br>>=3B >=3B>=3B>=
=3B I suspect that I'm not telling you anything that you don't already<br>&=
gt=3B >=3B>=3B>=3B know here BUT:<br>>=3B >=3B>=3B>=3B I thin=
k the critical point is that the original suspension bushes work<br>>=3B =
>=3B>=3B>=3B in the same way that rubber engine mounts are designed t=
o work. The<br>>=3B >=3B>=3B>=3B steel mounting plates (or in the c=
ase of mounts steel tubes) are<br>>=3B >=3B>=3B>=3B rigidly attache=
d to parts that move relative to each other and that<br>>=3B >=3B>=3B=
>=3B movement is accommodated by the flexing of the rubber medium bonded =
to<br>>=3B >=3B>=3B>=3B each plate.<br>>=3B >=3B>=3B>=3B Th=
e plastic bushes work more like bearings in that the rotational<br>>=3B &=
gt=3B>=3B>=3B movement is accommodated by rotation of the bolt (shaft) =
within the<br>>=3B >=3B>=3B>=3B bush (bearing). All very well while=
you are flying straight and level.<br>>=3B >=3B>=3B>=3B The proble=
m=2C as I see it=2C is that when angular displacement is<br>>=3B >=3B&g=
t=3B>=3B required=2C as in body roll=2C the plastic bushes must distort a=
nd as the<br>>=3B >=3B>=3B>=3B plastic is by necessity relatively r=
igid=2C when compared to the<br>>=3B >=3B>=3B>=3B original rubber=
=2C the loads imparted to the mounting points will be<br>>=3B >=3B>=
=3B>=3B substantially higher than that for which they were designed.<br>&=
gt=3B >=3B>=3B>=3B Maybe you will get away with it=2C maybe you won't=
.=2C I just don't want<br>>=3B >=3B>=3B>=3B to be passing you in th=
e opposite direction if you don't!!!!<br>>=3B >=3B>=3B>=3B Michael =
S<br>>=3B >=3B>=3B>=3B BN1 #174 (All rubber bushes :-))<br>>=3B &=
gt=3B>=3B>=3B<br>>=3B >=3B>=3B<br>>=3B >=3B>=3B<br>>=3B &=
gt=3B>=3B<br>>=3B >=3B>=3B ________________________________________=
_______<br>>=3B >=3B>=3B Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/donate.=
html<br>>=3B >=3B>=3B Suggested annual donation $12.75<br>>=3B >=
=3B>=3B Archive: http://www.team.net/archive<br>>=3B >=3B>=3B Forum=
s: http://www.team.net/forums<br>>=3B >=3B>=3B<br>>=3B >=3B>=3B=
Healeys@autox.team.net<br>>=3B >=3B>=3B http://autox.team.net/mailma=
n/listinfo/healeys<br>>=3B >=3B>=3B<br>>=3B >=3B>=3B Unsubscrib=
e/Manage: <br>>=3B >=3B>=3B http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/hea=
leys/rchaskell@earthlink.net<br>>=3B >=3B>=3B<br>>=3B >=3B ______=
_________________________________________<br>>=3B >=3B Support Team.Net=
http://www.team.net/donate.html<br>>=3B >=3B Suggested annual donation=
$12.75<br>>=3B >=3B Archive: http://www.team.net/archive<br>>=3B &g=
t=3B Forums: http://www.team.net/forums<br>>=3B >=3B<br>>=3B >=3B H=
ealeys@autox.team.net<br>>=3B >=3B http://autox.team.net/mailman/listin=
fo/healeys<br>>=3B >=3B<br>>=3B >=3B Unsubscribe/Manage: <br>>=3B=
>=3B http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/healeys/coudesluijs@chello.nl=
<br>>=3B >=3B<br>>=3B >=3B<br>>=3B >=3B<br>>=3B >=3B -----<=
br>>=3B >=3B Geen virus gevonden in dit bericht.<br>>=3B >=3B Gecon=
troleerd door AVG - www.avg.com<br>>=3B >=3B Versie: 2015.0.6172 / Viru=
sdatabase: 4450/10869 - datum van uitgifte: <br>>=3B >=3B 10/22/15<br>&=
gt=3B >=3B<br>>=3B >=3B<br>>=3B <br>>=3B ________________________=
_______________________<br>>=3B Support Team.Net http://www.team.net/dona=
te.html<br>>=3B Suggested annual donation $12.75<br>>=3B Archive: http=
://www.team.net/archive<br>>=3B Forums: http://www.team.net/forums<br>>=
=3B <br>>=3B Healeys@autox.team.net<br>>=3B http://autox.team.net/mailm=
an/listinfo/healeys<br>>=3B <br>>=3B Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.t=
eam.net/mailman/options/healeys/ynotink@msn.com<br>>=3B <br></div></div> =
</div></body>
</html>=
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