--===============0482878382785216080==
boundary="----=_Part_1201825_1285544640.1705158974762"
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I cannot really add any info for the answer but, I can add what can happen=
if you screw things up. Decades back I built an 1147 race engine for my ca=
r. Did the popup pistons per the prep book, not much but a little above the=
deck. All the chambers were equal size, all the pistons popped up exactly =
the same. Lots of hours and grinding/sanding to achieve this. Assemble for =
final time was Tuesday night into the wee hours of Weds am. Everything went=
well, finished getting car ready and loaded Fri pm for RA the following da=
y. Went out for practice one Sat am. Took it easy to let things get happy i=
nside. Sat afternoon practice came so out I went. A couple laps in I went f=
or it. It was built for 8k so I went there. As I approached T11, 4th gear, =
moving towards 8k, it all went wrong. A loud bang, loss of power and that s=
ick feeling. Gauges all were normal, no smoke, no signs of leaks so I motor=
ed back to the pits on 3 cyls. After letting it cool and changing I dove in=
to it. Pulled the head and looked in. Three pistons were at the same level =
so I pushed on the odd one out and it fell into the pan. I could see the pi=
n attached to the rod, rod bent at about a 30 deg angle sideways and lots o=
f debris. All in all, I needed a rod, piston, rod bearing, intake valve and=
the usual gaskets and fluids. Block survived without a scratch and I was r=
acing 2 weeks later. The rod was a stock rod that was shot-peened and a sto=
ck cast piston. I caused the failure by putting the wrong piston in the cyl=
, they all were withing a few thousanths of deck height and I mixed 2 up. L=
esson learned, don't assemble a race engine a couple long nights before an =
event.
Cheers,Ralph
ps. the rod might someday make a nice paper weight=C2=A0=C2=A0
On Friday, January 12, 2024 at 06:35:50 PM CST, Andrew Devenish via Fot=
<fot@autox.team.net> wrote: =20
=20
Interesting discussion. I think I read the optimal is to run as close to z=
ero as possible, but to add a slight angle to the head surface, increasing =
gap in the direction of the chamber. I can see an issue with a very small f=
lat squish, as the mass of air moving increases in that direction, so more =
area provided would be logical.=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 I have no=
rmally run my gap at gasket thickness, ie zero deck, but I am just building=
a motor that will (maybe ?) run 8 thou proud.=C2=A0
Thank you,=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Andrew Devenish
Sent from my iPad
On Jan 12, 2024, at 1:33=E2=80=AFPM, Chris Marx via Fot <fot@autox.team.net=
> wrote:
=EF=BB=BF
The measurements were made on a rolling road=E2=80=A6.BUT on the rolling ro=
ad at the Nurburging.
=20
This dyno was in charge to measure the balance of performance power of the =
race cars under controlled regulations.
=20
This dyno was equipped with a custom made software to be most exact. You ca=
n say the reference dyno.
=20
=C2=A0
=20
Why did we get a little gain?
=20
My GUESS - =C2=A0Two things come into play:
=20
- Turbulence =E2=80=93 turbulence is good to the point when it gets so s=
trong that it blows the flame out or it pushes against the flame front and =
hinder it
- Mathematical=E2=80=A6.assuming that you can make the gap zero between =
piston and head. The TR=E2=80=99s do have a chamber half the size of the pi=
ston surface. If you get the gap down to zero the pressure of the combustio=
n forces on half of the piston deck: Force =3D pressure x area. If the area=
is half the size, the force is half as strong. Certainly this is only true=
on TDC as soon the piston moves downwards the full area of the piston deck=
comes in to play again.
=20
=C2=A0
=20
I guess, these little things might make this little gain happen.
=20
But, I=E2=80=99m not an engine developer, I only make some thoughts about i=
t=E2=80=A6maybe not true and the result is just luck.
=20
On the other hand=E2=80=A6..my car has many wins with standard crank and st=
andard valve sizes. Does perform quite nice and seem to hold together.
=20
=C2=A0
=20
Cheers
=20
Chris
=20
=C2=A0
=20
=C2=A0
=20
From: fubog1 <fubog1@aol.com>
Sent: Friday, January 12, 2024 5:30 PM
To: Lorne Fritz <lorne.fritz@gmail.com>; tr4racing@googlemail.com; Ken Knig=
ht <kknight@klaenv.com>
Cc: fot@autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Fot] Piston to head clearance
=20
=C2=A0
=20
I'm still burning up (precious) brain cells on this, yes interesting, but t=
hat's one of my questions also, exactly how was the reported gain establish=
ed?
=20
I've always gone with the theory that more is better when it comes to turbu=
lence, which requires minimal squish clearance.
=20
I would imagine that chamber & piston top configuration, ie flat-tops or a =
lump on top, may be part of the equation as well...
=20
Yes compelling discussion!
=20
=C2=A0
=20
Glen Efinger
=20
=C2=A0
=20
On Friday, January 12, 2024 at 10:57:08 AM EST, Ken Knight <kknight@klaenv.=
com> wrote:
=20
=C2=A0
=20
=C2=A0
=20
Interesting discussion and I would agree on point.=C2=A0 What would interes=
ting to know is how the HP change was measured; chassis dyno or engine dyno=
?
=20
=C2=A0
=20
Ken
=20
=C2=A0
=20
Sent fromMail for Windows
=20
=C2=A0
=20
From:Lorne Fritz via Fot
Sent: Friday, January 12, 2024 7:13 AM
To: tr4racing@googlemail.com
Cc: fot@autox.team.net;fubog1
Subject: Re: [Fot] Piston to head clearance
=20
=C2=A0
=20
Good point.
=20
=C2=A0
=20
On Thu, Jan 11, 2024 at 6:45=E2=80=AFPM <tr4racing@googlemail.com> wrote:
=20
That is one thing to consider.
=20
When is turbulence supporting and when is turbulence overdone and disturbin=
g.
=20
=C2=A0
=20
I could imagine to force too much turbulence with a very small squish gap t=
he flame front expansion is compromised, thus slows down, and lowers the hp=
output.
=20
That=E2=80=99s why we had the best power with 0.047=E2=80=9D gap.
=20
=C2=A0
=20
Cheers
=20
Chris
=20
=C2=A0
=20
=C2=A0
=20
From: Fot <fot-bounces@autox.team.net>On Behalf Of fubog1 via Fot
Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2024 8:01 PM
To: Lorne Fritz <lorne.fritz@gmail.com>; Steven Belfer <steve@artwithcars.c=
om>
Cc: fot@autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Fot] Piston to head clearance
=20
=C2=A0
=20
Steve nailed it, both on the ##s, & the importance of it.
=20
It depends on what rods & crank, piston to wall clearance & what RPM, but f=
or most applications that's right in the ballpark.
=20
I've run as little as oops not enough ie .025 or less, .028 minimum (you wo=
n't get any carbon deposit on the squish area), but to play it safe nowaday=
s I use .030-.032
=20
Also on these engines it's not only a CR related issue, the squish is very =
critical, you want to minimize the clearance between piston top & head to m=
aximize the squish effect, which creates turbulence, which assists in good =
combustion...
=20
=C2=A0
=20
Glen Efinger.
=20
=C2=A0
=20
=C2=A0
=20
On Thursday, January 11, 2024 at 01:00:50 PM EST, Steven Belfer via Fot <fo=
t@autox.team.net> wrote:=20
=20
=C2=A0
=20
=C2=A0
=20
You want as little as necessary because this is where your high CR comes fr=
om.=C2=A0 The thickness of the head gasket is the major part of P to H clea=
rance.=C2=A0 I ran .026 P to H clearance at Cal Speedway and the piston kis=
sed the head and I spun a bearing.=C2=A0 My machine shop guy likes .040 for=
safety but I=E2=80=99ve been running .032 and it=E2=80=99s working out gre=
at
~Steve
> On Jan 11, 2024, at 9:13=E2=80=AFAM, Lorne Fritz via Fot <fot@autox.team.=
net> wrote:
>=20
> =EF=BB=BF
> Hi.=C2=A0 In the past I have had pistons hit the head and leave a mark(TR=
3/4).=C2=A0 What piston to head clearance are most of you running? Thanks i=
n advance,=C2=A0 Lorne
> _______________________________________________
> fot@autox.team.net
>=20
> http://www.fot-racing.com
>=20
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archivehttp://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
> Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/steve@artwi=
thcars.com
=20
>=20
>=20
_______________________________________________
fot@autox.team.net
http://www.fot-racing.com
Archive: http://autox.team.net/archivehttp://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
m
=20
=C2=A0
_______________________________________________
fot@autox.team.net
http://www.fot-racing.com
Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
com
_______________________________________________
fot@autox.team.net
http://www.fot-racing.com
Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
com
=20
------=_Part_1201825_1285544640.1705158974762
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<html><head></head><body><div class=3D"ydp45ef0317yahoo-style-wrap" style=
=3D"font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:13px=
;"><div></div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">I cannot really add any info=
for the answer but, I can add what can happen if you screw things up. Deca=
des back I built an 1147 race engine for my car. Did the popup pistons per =
the prep book, not much but a little above the deck. All the chambers were =
equal size, all the pistons popped up exactly the same. Lots of hours and g=
rinding/sanding to achieve this. Assemble for final time was Tuesday night =
into the wee hours of Weds am. Everything went well, finished getting car r=
eady and loaded Fri pm for RA the following day. Went out for practice one =
Sat am. Took it easy to let things get happy inside. Sat afternoon practice=
came so out I went. A couple laps in I went for it. It was built for 8k so=
I went there. As I approached T11, 4th gear, moving towards 8k, it all wen=
t wrong. A loud bang, loss of power and that sick feeling. Gauges all were =
normal, no smoke, no signs of leaks so I motored back to the pits on 3 cyls=
. After letting it cool and changing I dove into it. Pulled the head and lo=
oked in. Three pistons were at the same level so I pushed on the odd one ou=
t and it fell into the pan. I could see the pin attached to the rod, rod be=
nt at about a 30 deg angle sideways and lots of debris. All in all, I neede=
d a rod, piston, rod bearing, intake valve and the usual gaskets and fluids=
. Block survived without a scratch and I was racing 2 weeks later. The rod =
was a stock rod that was shot-peened and a stock cast piston. I caused the =
failure by putting the wrong piston in the cyl, they all were withing a few=
thousanths of deck height and I mixed 2 up. Lesson learned, don't assemble=
a race engine a couple long nights before an event.</div><div dir=3D"ltr" =
data-setdir=3D"false"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">Chee=
rs,</div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">Ralph</div><div dir=3D"ltr"=
data-setdir=3D"false"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">ps.=
the rod might someday make a nice paper weight </div><div><br><=
/div>
=20
</div><div id=3D"ydp8bd50308yahoo_quoted_5376023697" class=3D"ydp8b=
d50308yahoo_quoted">
<div style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, s=
ans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;">
=20
<div>
On Friday, January 12, 2024 at 06:35:50 PM CST, Andrew =
Devenish via Fot <fot@autox.team.net> wrote:
</div>
<div><br></div>
<div><br></div>
<div><div id=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724"><div>
Interesting discussion. I think I read the optimal is to run as close to ze=
ro as possible, but to add a slight angle to the head surface, increasing g=
ap in the direction of the chamber. I can see an issue with a very small fl=
at squish, as the mass of air moving
increases in that direction, so more area provided would be logical.
<div> I have normally run my gap at gaske=
t thickness, ie zero deck, but I am just building a motor that will (maybe =
?) run 8 thou proud. </div>
<div><br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">Thank you,
<div> Andrew Devenish</div>
<div>
<div><br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div>Sent from my iPad</div>
</div>
</div>
<div id=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724yqt66384" class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527=
724yqt4561819643"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"none">
<blockquote type=3D"cite">On Jan 12, 2024, at 1:33=E2=80=AFPM, Chris Marx v=
ia Fot <fot@autox.team.net> wrote:<br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
<div dir=3D"ltr">=EF=BB=BF
</div></blockquote></div></div></div><div id=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724yqt=
85797" class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724yqt4561819643"><div><div class=3D"y=
dp8bd50308yiv9028527724WordSection1">
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724MsoNormal">The measurements were made o=
n a rolling road=E2=80=A6.BUT on the rolling road at the Nurburging.</p>=20
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724MsoNormal">This dyno was in charge to m=
easure the balance of performance power of the race cars under controlled r=
egulations.</p>=20
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724MsoNormal">This dyno was equipped with =
a custom made software to be most exact. You can say the reference dyno.</p=
>=20
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724MsoNormal"> </p>=20
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724MsoNormal">Why did we get a little gain=
?</p>=20
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724MsoNormal">My GUESS - Two things =
come into play:</p>=20
<ol style=3D"margin-top:0cm;" start=3D"1" type=3D"1"><li style=3D"margin-le=
ft:0cm;" class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724MsoListParagraph">Turbulence =E2=
=80=93 turbulence is good to the point when it gets so strong that it blows=
the flame out or it pushes against the flame front and hinder it</li><li s=
tyle=3D"margin-left:0cm;" class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724MsoListParagraph=
">Mathematical=E2=80=A6.assuming that you can make the gap zero between pis=
ton and head. The TR=E2=80=99s do have a chamber half the size of the pisto=
n surface. If you get the gap down to zero the pressure
of the combustion forces on half of the piston deck: Force =3D pressure x =
area. If the area is half the size, the force is half as strong. Certainly =
this is only true on TDC as soon the piston moves downwards the full area o=
f the piston deck comes in to play
again.</li></ol>=20
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724MsoNormal"> </p>=20
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724MsoNormal">I guess, these little things=
might make this little gain happen.</p>=20
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724MsoNormal">But, I=E2=80=99m not an engi=
ne developer, I only make some thoughts about it=E2=80=A6maybe not true and=
the result is just luck.</p>=20
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724MsoNormal">On the other hand=E2=80=A6..=
my car has many wins with standard crank and standard valve sizes. Does per=
form quite nice and seem to hold together.</p>=20
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724MsoNormal"> </p>=20
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724MsoNormal">Cheers</p>=20
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724MsoNormal">Chris</p>=20
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724MsoNormal"> </p>=20
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724MsoNormal"> </p>=20
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm;">
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"DE">From:</=
span></b><span lang=3D"DE"> fubog1 <fubog1@aol.com>
<br clear=3D"none">
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, January 12, 2024 5:30 PM<br clear=3D"none">
<b>To:</b> Lorne Fritz <lorne.fritz@gmail.com>; tr4racing@googlemail.=
com; Ken Knight <kknight@klaenv.com><br clear=3D"none">
<b>Cc:</b> fot@autox.team.net<br clear=3D"none">
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Fot] Piston to head clearance</span></p>=20
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724MsoNormal"> </p>=20
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.=
0pt;font-family:sans-serif;">I'm still burning up (precious) brain cells on=
this, yes interesting, but that's one of my questions also, exactly how wa=
s the reported gain established?</span></p>=20
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.=
0pt;font-family:sans-serif;">I've always gone with the theory that more is =
better when it comes to turbulence, which requires minimal squish clearance=
.</span></p>=20
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.=
0pt;font-family:sans-serif;">I would imagine that chamber & piston top =
configuration, ie flat-tops or a lump on top, may be part of the equation a=
s well...</span></p>=20
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.=
0pt;font-family:sans-serif;">Yes compelling discussion!</span></p>=20
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.=
0pt;font-family:sans-serif;"> </span></p>=20
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.=
0pt;font-family:sans-serif;">Glen Efinger</span></p>=20
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.=
0pt;font-family:sans-serif;"> </span></p>=20
</div>
</div>
<div id=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724ydp3da3111dyahoo_quoted_5967812695">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.=
0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#26282A;">On Friday, January 12, 2024 at 1=
0:57:08 AM EST, Ken Knight <<a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:kknight@kla=
env.com" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">kknight@klaenv.com</a>> wrot=
e:
</span></p>=20
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.=
0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#26282A;"> </span></p>=20
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.=
0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#26282A;"> </span></p>=20
</div>
<div>
<div id=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724ydp3da3111dyiv6692933316">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724ydp3da3111dyiv6692933316msonormal"><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#26282A;">Interest=
ing discussion and I would agree on point. What would interesting to =
know is how the HP change was measured; chassis dyno or
engine dyno?</span></p>=20
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724ydp3da3111dyiv6692933316msonormal"><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#26282A;"> </=
span></p>=20
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724ydp3da3111dyiv6692933316msonormal"><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#26282A;">Ken
</span></p>=20
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724ydp3da3111dyiv6692933316msonormal"><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#26282A;"> </=
span></p>=20
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724ydp3da3111dyiv6692933316msonormal"><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#26282A;">Sent fro=
m
<a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=3D550986"=
rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">Mail</a> for Windows</span></p>=20
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724ydp3da3111dyiv6692933316msonormal"><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#26282A;"> </=
span></p>=20
<div id=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724ydp3da3111dyiv6692933316yqt61391">
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0=
cm 0cm 0cm;border-color:currentcolor currentcolor;">
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724ydp3da3111dyiv6692933316msonormal"><b><=
span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#26282A;">From:
</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#26=
282A;"><a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net"; rel=3D"nofollow=
" target=3D"_blank">Lorne Fritz via Fot</a><br clear=3D"none">
<b>Sent: </b>Friday, January 12, 2024 7:13 AM<br clear=3D"none">
<b>To: </b><a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:tr4racing@googlemail.com"; rel=
=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">tr4racing@googlemail.com</a><br clear=3D"no=
ne">
<b>Cc: </b><a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net"; rel=3D"nofo=
llow" target=3D"_blank">fot@autox.team.net</a>;
<a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:fubog1@aol.com"; rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D=
"_blank">fubog1</a><br clear=3D"none">
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Fot] Piston to head clearance</span></p>=20
</div>
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724ydp3da3111dyiv6692933316msonormal"><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#26282A;"> </=
span></p>=20
<div>
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724ydp3da3111dyiv6692933316msonormal"><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#26282A;">Good poi=
nt.
</span></p>=20
</div>
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724ydp3da3111dyiv6692933316msonormal"><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#26282A;"> </=
span></p>=20
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724ydp3da3111dyiv6692933316msonormal"><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#26282A;">On Thu, =
Jan 11, 2024 at 6:45=E2=80=AFPM <<a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:tr4rac=
ing@googlemail.com" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">tr4racing@googlemail=
.com</a>> wrote:</span></p>=20
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding=
:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;marg=
in-bottom:5.0pt;border-color:currentcolor currentcolor currentcolor rgb(204=
, 204, 204);">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724ydp3da3111dyiv6692933316msonormal"><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#26282A;">That is =
one thing to consider.</span></p>=20
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724ydp3da3111dyiv6692933316msonormal"><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#26282A;">When is =
turbulence supporting and when is turbulence overdone and disturbing.</span=
></p>=20
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724ydp3da3111dyiv6692933316msonormal"><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#26282A;"> </=
span></p>=20
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724ydp3da3111dyiv6692933316msonormal"><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#26282A;">I could =
imagine to force too much turbulence with a very small squish gap the flame=
front expansion is compromised, thus slows down,
and lowers the hp output.</span></p>=20
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724ydp3da3111dyiv6692933316msonormal"><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#26282A;">That=E2=
=80=99s why we had the best power with 0.047=E2=80=9D gap.</span></p>=20
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724ydp3da3111dyiv6692933316msonormal"><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#26282A;"> </=
span></p>=20
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724ydp3da3111dyiv6692933316msonormal"><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#26282A;">Cheers</=
span></p>=20
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724ydp3da3111dyiv6692933316msonormal"><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#26282A;">Chris</s=
pan></p>=20
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724ydp3da3111dyiv6692933316msonormal"><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#26282A;"> </=
span></p>=20
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724ydp3da3111dyiv6692933316msonormal"><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#26282A;"> </=
span></p>=20
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0=
cm 0cm 0cm;border-color:currentcolor;">
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724ydp3da3111dyiv6692933316msonormal"><b><=
span lang=3D"DE" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#26=
282A;">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"DE" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:sans-serif;color:#26282A;"> Fot <<a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:fo=
t-bounces@autox.team.net" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">fot-bounces@au=
tox.team.net</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>fubog1 via Fot<br clear=3D"none">
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, January 11, 2024 8:01 PM<br clear=3D"none">
<b>To:</b> Lorne Fritz <<a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:lorne.fritz@gma=
il.com" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">lorne.fritz@gmail.com</a>>; S=
teven Belfer <<a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:steve@artwithcars.com"; re=
l=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">steve@artwithcars.com</a>><br clear=3D"=
none">
<b>Cc:</b> <a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net"; rel=3D"nofo=
llow" target=3D"_blank">fot@autox.team.net</a><br clear=3D"none">
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Fot] Piston to head clearance</span><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#26282A;"></span></p>=20
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724ydp3da3111dyiv6692933316msonormal"><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#26282A;"> </=
span></p>=20
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724ydp3da3111dyiv6692933316msonormal"><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#26282A;">Steve na=
iled it, both on the ##s, & the importance of it.</span><span style=3D"=
font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#26282A;"></span></p>=20
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724ydp3da3111dyiv6692933316msonormal"><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#26282A;">It depen=
ds on what rods & crank, piston to wall clearance & what RPM, but f=
or most applications that's right in the ballpark.</span><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#26282A;"></span></p>=20
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724ydp3da3111dyiv6692933316msonormal"><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#26282A;">I've run=
as little as oops not enough ie .025 or less, .028 minimum (you won't get =
any carbon deposit on the squish area), but to play it
safe nowadays I use .030-.032</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-f=
amily:sans-serif;color:#26282A;"></span></p>=20
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724ydp3da3111dyiv6692933316msonormal"><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#26282A;">Also on =
these engines it's not only a CR related issue, the squish is very critical=
, you want to minimize the clearance between piston top
& head to maximize the squish effect, which creates turbulence, which =
assists in good combustion...</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fa=
mily:sans-serif;color:#26282A;"></span></p>=20
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724ydp3da3111dyiv6692933316msonormal"><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#26282A;"> </=
span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#26282A;"=
></span></p>=20
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724ydp3da3111dyiv6692933316msonormal"><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#26282A;">Glen Efi=
nger.</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#2=
6282A;"></span></p>=20
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724ydp3da3111dyiv6692933316msonormal"><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#26282A;"> </=
span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#26282A;"=
></span></p>=20
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724ydp3da3111dyiv6692933316msonormal"><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#26282A;"> </=
span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#26282A;"=
></span></p>=20
</div>
</div>
<div id=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724ydp3da3111dyiv6692933316m_98618890471981=
0780ydpeb00682yahoo_quoted_5223032547">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724ydp3da3111dyiv6692933316msonormal"><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#26282A;">On Thurs=
day, January 11, 2024 at 01:00:50 PM EST, Steven Belfer via Fot <<a shap=
e=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net"; rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_b=
lank">fot@autox.team.net</a>>
wrote: </span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color=
:#26282A;"></span></p>=20
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724ydp3da3111dyiv6692933316msonormal"><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#26282A;"> </=
span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#26282A;"=
></span></p>=20
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724ydp3da3111dyiv6692933316msonormal"><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#26282A;"> </=
span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#26282A;"=
></span></p>=20
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724ydp3da3111dyiv6692933316msonormal"><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#26282A;">You want=
as little as necessary because this is where your high CR comes from. =
; The thickness of the head gasket is the major part of P
to H clearance. I ran .026 P to H clearance at Cal Speedway and the =
piston kissed the head and I spun a bearing. My machine shop guy like=
s .040 for safety but I=E2=80=99ve been running .032 and it=E2=80=99s worki=
ng out great<br clear=3D"none">
~Steve<br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
> On Jan 11, 2024, at 9:13=E2=80=AFAM, Lorne Fritz via Fot <<a shape=
=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net"; rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_bl=
ank">fot@autox.team.net</a>> wrote:<br clear=3D"none">
> <br clear=3D"none">
> </span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#2=
6282A;">=EF=BB=BF</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-se=
rif;color:#26282A;"><br clear=3D"none">
> Hi. In the past I have had pistons hit the head and leave a mark=
(TR3/4). What piston to head clearance are most of you running? Thank=
s in advance, Lorne<br clear=3D"none">
> _______________________________________________<br clear=3D"none">
> <a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net"; rel=3D"nofollow" =
target=3D"_blank">fot@autox.team.net</a><br clear=3D"none">
> <br clear=3D"none">
> <a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com"; rel=3D"nofollow" =
target=3D"_blank">http://www.fot-racing.com</a><br clear=3D"none">
> <br clear=3D"none">
> Donate: <a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html"; rel=
=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br clea=
r=3D"none">
> Archive: <a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive"; rel=
=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/archive</a>
<a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot"; rel=3D"nofollo=
w" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot</a><br clear=3D"none=
">
> Unsubscribe/Manage: <a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"http://autox.team.net/ma=
ilman/options/fot/steve@artwithcars.com" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank"=
>
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/steve@artwithcars.com</a></span><=
span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#26282A;"></spa=
n></p>=20
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p style=3D"margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;" class=
=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724ydp3da3111dyiv6692933316msonormal">
<span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#26282A;"><br =
clear=3D"none">
> <br clear=3D"none">
> <br clear=3D"none">
_______________________________________________<br clear=3D"none">
<a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net"; rel=3D"nofollow" targe=
t=3D"_blank">fot@autox.team.net</a><br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
<a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com"; rel=3D"nofollow" targe=
t=3D"_blank">http://www.fot-racing.com</a><br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
ofollow" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br clear=3D"=
none">
Archive: <a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive"; rel=3D"no=
follow" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/archive</a>
<a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot"; rel=3D"nofollo=
w" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot</a><br clear=3D"none=
">
/options/fot/fubog1@aol.com" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/fubog1@aol.com</a></span><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#26282A;"></span></p>=
=20
</div>
<p class=3D"ydp8bd50308yiv9028527724ydp3da3111dyiv6692933316msonormal"><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:#26282A;"> </=
span></p>=20
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<span>_______________________________________________</span><br clear=3D"no=
ne">
<span>fot@autox.team.net</span><br clear=3D"none">
<span></span><br clear=3D"none">
<span>http://www.fot-racing.com</span><br clear=3D"none">
<span></span><br clear=3D"none">
<span>Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html</span><br clear=3D"none">
<span>Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/=
fot</span><br clear=3D"none">
<span>Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/gt6race=
r@msn.com</span><br clear=3D"none">
<span></span><br clear=3D"none">
<span></span><br clear=3D"none">
</div></div></div><div class=3D"ydp8bd50308yqt4561819643" id=3D"ydp8bd50308=
yqt95281">_______________________________________________<br clear=3D"none"=
><a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net"; rel=3D"nofollow" targ=
et=3D"_blank">fot@autox.team.net</a><br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"><=
a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com"; rel=3D"nofollow" target=
=3D"_blank">http://www.fot-racing.com</a><br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"no=
ne">Donate: <a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html"; rel=
=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br clea=
r=3D"none">Archive: <a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive=
" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/archive</a> <a s=
hape=3D"rect" href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot"; rel=3D"nofollow" t=
arget=3D"_blank">http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot</a><br clear=3D"none">Un=
subscribe/Manage: <a shape=3D"rect" href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/o=
ptions/fot/quikrx@yahoo.com" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">http://auto=
x.team.net/mailman/options/fot/quikrx@yahoo.com</a><br clear=3D"none"><br c=
lear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"></div></div>
</div>
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_______________________________________________
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--===============0482878382785216080==--
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