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You can easily run .0025-.003 clearance with forged and coated pistons if y=
ou have a torque plate, a machine shop with the proper equipment to hone th=
e liners, the right oil and a cooling system that works. Blueprinting the =
block cooling passages is a big factor in this. My last engine had +50 ful=
l races + qualifying and practice with 3% leak down on the rings. Valves n=
eeded attention several times before bottom end. Striped ring gear in 2nd =
under power spun at motor to 8,700 rpm where cam broke. While bottom held =
and still turned the result ended that motor for good. You simple blueprin=
t TR engines like a Small Block Chevy V8 race engine. They have done all t=
he tech and developed all the parts. That=E2=80=99s my 2 cents.
Ken=20
Sent from Mail for Windows
From: Philip Gott via Fot
Sent: Saturday, February 4, 2023 5:28 AM
To: tr4racing@googlemail.com; Friends Of Triumph
Subject: Re: [Fot] Pistons
Everyone making good points, but just to throw this out there: we=E2=80=99v=
e built a couple of =E2=80=9Cbudget=E2=80=9D engines with cast flat top pis=
tons to good effect. =C2=A0We shift at 6000 and have good life and good pow=
er (over 140 Hp at the wheels). So you can run those with no fear if set up=
correctly.
With forged pistons set to proper clearance we would expect less sliding fr=
iction and hence more power ( the pistons are the single biggest area of fr=
iction-based parasitic loss in an engine) due to both slipper design and le=
ss distortion under load for forged pistons. =C2=A0Have been building an en=
gine with Arias pistons (yes, they are now owned by Carillo) - it=E2=80=99s=
been a work in progress for a while, and Dave now running Wiseco pistons.
You choose your path and make it work, just =E2=80=9Cdon=E2=80=99t be beate=
n by equipment!=E2=80=9D
Phil Gott
Sent from my iPhone
On Feb 4, 2023, at 3:06 AM, Chris Marx via Fot <fot@autox.team.net> wrote:
=EF=BB=BF
Hi Tony,
=C2=A0
regardless what the manufacturer says I set forged pistons on 0,13mm cleara=
nce.
Runs forever, never any issues, no piston slap. That=E2=80=99s my engine ma=
n recommended and so we did.
My TR4 runs on the same pistons now for 10 years with one change of rings i=
nbetween.
=C2=A0
On aluminum engines =E2=80=93 different story.
=C2=A0
Cheers
Chris
=C2=A0
Von: Fot <fot-bounces@autox.team.net> Im Auftrag von Tony Sheach via Fot
Gesendet: Freitag, 3. Februar 2023 17:44
An: DAVE HOGYE <dlhogye@comcast.net>
Cc: Erik Jacobsen via Fot <fot@autox.team.net>
Betreff: Re: [Fot] Pistons
=C2=A0
Hi folks=20
=C2=A0
I have a set of Wiseco 89mm pistons that i bought maybe 10 years ago I was =
going to use in a torquey rally engine with a set of Carillo rods - is ther=
e an issue with piston / liner clearances as some have said ? Or is it just=
a question of not letting the engine run over hot ?
=C2=A0
I have Venolia=E2=80=99s in my other bigger capacity engine and they have b=
een great, but I=E2=80=99m not so sure about Uk supply any more. They also =
needed the longer Carillo rods, so if I go that route I end up with a set o=
f pistons I don=E2=80=99t need.
=C2=A0
What=E2=80=99s the advice from the wise ?
=C2=A0
Regards
=C2=A0
Tony=C2=A0
Sent from my iPad
On 3 Feb 2023, at 16:22, DAVE HOGYE via Fot <fot@autox.team.net> wrote:
=EF=BB=BF=20
I believe that J&E owns Wiseco.=C2=A0 The Kipp family in Ohio started Wisec=
o and owned it until a few years ago.=C2=A0 I found this out when I called =
J&E about ordering pistons, or I called Wiseco.=C2=A0 Can't remember who I =
called first.=C2=A0 Tom Kipp was a top AMA Super Sports and Super Bike race=
r during the '90s.=C2=A0 Wiseco was a big sponsor of AMA and might still be=
.=C2=A0 I installed a Wiseco 1200cc piston kit in my '93 H-D Sportster way =
back in the '90s.=C2=A0=20
Dave H.=C2=A0=20
On 02/03/2023 4:41 AM Erik Jacobsen via Fot <fot@autox.team.net> wrote:=20
=C2=A0
=C2=A0
=C2=A0
=C2=A0
_______________________________________________
fot@autox.team.net
http://www.fot-racing.com
Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
ive.co.uk
_______________________________________________
fot@autox.team.net
http://www.fot-racing.com
Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
com
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--></style></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vlink=3D"#954F72" style=3D=
'word-wrap:break-word'><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal>You c=
an easily run .0025-.003 clearance with forged and coated pistons if you ha=
ve a torque plate, a machine shop with the proper equipment to hone the lin=
ers, the right oil and a cooling system that works.=C2=A0 Blueprinting the =
block cooling passages is a big factor in this.=C2=A0 My last engine had +5=
0 full races + qualifying and practice with 3% leak down on the rings.=C2=
=A0 Valves needed attention several times before bottom end.=C2=A0 Striped =
ring gear in 2<sup>nd</sup> under power spun at motor to 8,700 rpm where ca=
m broke.=C2=A0 While bottom held and still turned the result ended that mot=
or for good.=C2=A0 You simple blueprint TR engines like a Small Block Chevy=
V8 race engine.=C2=A0 They have done all the tech and developed all the pa=
rts.=C2=A0 That=E2=80=99s my 2 cents.</p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Ken </p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Sent from <a href=
=3D"https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=3D550986";>Mail</a> for Windows<=
/p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div style=3D'mso-element:para=
-border-div;border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0i=
n 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'border:none;padding:0in'><b>From: </b>=
<a href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net";>Philip Gott via Fot</a><br><b>Sent: <=
/b>Saturday, February 4, 2023 5:28 AM<br><b>To: </b><a href=3D"mailto:tr4ra=
cing@googlemail.com">tr4racing@googlemail.com</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:fot@au=
tox.team.net">Friends Of Triumph</a><br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [Fot] Pistons</=
p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Ever=
yone making good points, but just to throw this out there: we=E2=80=99ve bu=
ilt a couple of =E2=80=9Cbudget=E2=80=9D engines with cast flat top pistons=
to good effect. We shift at 6000 and have good life and good power (=
over 140 Hp at the wheels). So you can run those with no fear if set up cor=
rectly.<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>With forged pistons set to =
proper clearance we would expect less sliding friction and hence more power=
( the pistons are the single biggest area of friction-based parasitic loss=
in an engine) due to both slipper design and less distortion under load fo=
r forged pistons. Have been building an engine with Arias pistons (ye=
s, they are now owned by Carillo) - it=E2=80=99s been a work in progress fo=
r a while, and Dave now running Wiseco pistons.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p=
class=3DMsoNormal>You choose your path and make it work, just =E2=80=9Cdon=
=E2=80=99t be beaten by equipment!=E2=80=9D<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p cla=
ss=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Phil Gott<o:p></o:p></p><div>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal>Sent from my iPhone<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=
=3DMsoNormal><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;m=
argin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>On =
Feb 4, 2023, at 3:06 AM, Chris Marx via Fot <fot@autox.team.net> wrot=
e:<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div><blockquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;m=
argin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>=EF=BB=BF<o:p></o:p></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DDE>Hi Tony,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMs=
oNormal><span lang=3DDE> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>re=
gardless what the manufacturer says I set forged pistons on 0,13mm clearanc=
e.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Runs forever, never any issues, no pi=
ston slap. That=E2=80=99s my engine man recommended and so we did.<o:p></o:=
p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>My TR4 runs on the same pistons now for 10 years=
with one change of rings inbetween.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>&nb=
sp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>On aluminum engines =E2=80=93 differ=
ent story.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoNormal>Cheers<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Chris<o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><div><div style=3D'border:none;bo=
rder-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNorma=
l><b><span lang=3DDE>Von:</span></b><span lang=3DDE> Fot <fot-bounces@au=
tox.team.net> <b>Im Auftrag von </b>Tony Sheach via Fot<br><b>Gesendet:<=
/b> Freitag, 3. Februar 2023 17:44<br><b>An:</b> DAVE HOGYE <dlhogye@com=
cast.net><br><b>Cc:</b> Erik Jacobsen via Fot <fot@autox.team.net>=
<br><b>Betreff:</b> Re: [Fot] Pistons</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p c=
lass=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>Hi folks <o:p></=
o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=
=3DMsoNormal>I have a set of Wiseco 89mm pistons that i bought maybe 10 yea=
rs ago I was going to use in a torquey rally engine with a set of Carillo r=
ods - is there an issue with piston / liner clearances as some have said ? =
Or is it just a question of not letting the engine run over hot ?<o:p></o:p=
></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p cla=
ss=3DMsoNormal>I have Venolia=E2=80=99s in my other bigger capacity engine =
and they have been great, but I=E2=80=99m not so sure about Uk supply any m=
ore. They also needed the longer Carillo rods, so if I go that route I end =
up with a set of pistons I don=E2=80=99t need.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>What=
=E2=80=99s the advice from the wise ?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DM=
soNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>Regards<o:p><=
/o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p=
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Tony <o:p></o:p></p>=
<div><p class=3DMsoNormal>Sent from my iPad<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p cla=
ss=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>On 3 Feb 2023, at 16:22, =
DAVE HOGYE via Fot <<a href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net";><span style=3D=
'color:#0563C1'>fot@autox.team.net</span></a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></di=
v><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>=EF=BB=BF <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNor=
mal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;colo=
r:#333333'>I believe that J&E owns Wiseco. The Kipp family in Ohi=
o started Wiseco and owned it until a few years ago. I found this out=
when I called J&E about ordering pistons, or I called Wiseco. Ca=
n't remember who I called first. Tom Kipp was a top AMA Super Sports =
and Super Bike racer during the '90s. Wiseco was a big sponsor of AMA=
and might still be. I installed a Wiseco 1200cc piston kit in my '93=
H-D Sportster way back in the '90s. </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div=
><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetic=
a",sans-serif;color:#333333'>Dave H. </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><blo=
ckquote style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=3DMsoN=
ormal>On 02/03/2023 4:41 AM Erik Jacobsen via Fot <<a href=3D"mailto:fot=
@autox.team.net"><span style=3D'color:#0563C1'>fot@autox.team.net</span></a=
>> wrote: <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:=
p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica=
",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><p class=
=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>_______________________________=
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