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My brother worked for Gran Turismo Jaguar in Northern Ohio a few decades ag=
o and I remember well him telling me they taught him how to straighten cran=
ks with a mallet of some sort, set up in a rotational device. I thought i=
t was barbaric at the time having never heard of that sort of thing, but GT=
J definitely knew what they were doing. GTJ built championship winning Jag=
s.=20
Dave H.=20
> On November 24, 2019 at 4:57 PM "John H. Hasty via Fot" <fot@autox.team.n=
et> wrote:
>=20
> Chris: That is exactly how we built the roller bearing crank half's =
for our two stroke GP bikes... well placed blows with a brass hammer and in=
an hour or so you end up with a straight crank
>=20
> Sent from my iPhone
>=20
>=20
> > > On Nov 24, 2019, at 6:27 PM, Chris Marx via Fot <fot@autox.te=
am.net> wrote:
> >=20
> >=20
> > >=20
> > >=20
> > Hi Phil,
> >=20
> > =20
> >=20
> > If I give a crank to the machine shop for testing and maybe pol=
ishing they also correcting straightness.
> >=20
> > They using a hammer and a wedge like tool with brass or bronze =
surface and giving it a big blow at some places to make it straight.
> >=20
> > They also checking with magna flux system for cracks.
> >=20
> > =20
> >=20
> > I run 0.0027=E2=80=9D main bearing clearance.
> >=20
> > =20
> >=20
> > For sure Kas throw in is right. I keep the revs below 6k with t=
he standard crank.
> >=20
> > Many people going up to 7k with their engines but I don=E2=80=
=99t dare. A billet crank might help a little but I saw billet cranks break=
ing too.
> >=20
> > =20
> >=20
> > Engine power is not my main concern. Cornering speed is.
> >=20
> > =20
> >=20
> > Cheers
> >=20
> > Chris
> >=20
> > =20
> >=20
> > =20
> >=20
> > Von: Fot <fot-bounces@autox.team.net> Im Auftrag von Phil Gott =
via Fot
> > Gesendet: Sonntag, 24. November 2019 22:03
> > An: Friends Of Triumph <fot@autox.team.net>
> > Betreff: Re: [Fot] Center main support
> >=20
> > =20
> >=20
> > Interesting, Chris:
> >=20
> > My machine shop said that .002=E2=80=9D run out at the center m=
ain, with the crank supported and spun on numbers 1 and 3 was a sign that i=
t was developing high levels of internal stress (work hardening) and that i=
t should be retired. They aim for 0 run out under these conditions. Based o=
n what you=E2=80=99ve said, I wonder if they are being overly cautious. As =
they do not grind cranks themselves ( only polishing and balancing), they h=
ad little to gain from that diagnosis.
> > Thanks for the input.
> >=20
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > > > >=20
> > > On Nov 24, 2019, at 9:26 AM, Tony Drews <tony@tonydrews.c=
om mailto:tony@tonydrews.com > wrote:
> > >=20
> > > > >=20
> > > > >=20
> > > =20
> > >=20
> > > Wow! It's very nicely done. Certainly overkill.
> > >=20
> > > Regards, Tony
> > >=20
> > > On 11/23/2019 9:11 PM, Phil Gott wrote:
> > >=20
> > > > > > >=20
> > > > Here are some photos:
> > > >=20
> > > > <image0.jpeg>
> > > >=20
> > > > =20
> > > >=20
> > > > <image1.jpeg>
> > > >=20
> > > > =20
> > > >=20
> > > > =20
> > > >=20
> > > > <image2.jpeg>
> > > >=20
> > > > =20
> > > >=20
> > > > =20
> > > >=20
> > > > Sent from my iPhone
> > > >=20
> > > >=20
> > > >=20
> > > > > > > > >=20
> > > > > On Nov 23, 2019, at 12:23 PM, Tony Drews <ton=
y@tonydrews.com> mailto:tony@tonydrews.com wrote:
> > > > >=20
> > > > > > > > >=20
> > > > > > > > >=20
> > > > > =20
> > > > >=20
> > > > > I agree, that sounds like overkill. Mine onl=
y requires the top of the cap to be machined flat, no other block mods.
> > > > >=20
> > > > > Regards, Tony
> > > > >=20
> > > > > On 11/23/2019 5:42 AM, Phil Gott wrote:
> > > > >=20
> > > > > > > > > > >=20
> > > > > > Thanks again, Tony:
> > > > > >=20
> > > > > > The one we have, built by the late Bill=
Throop, in addition to reinforcing the cap itself, has the block machined=
internally to accept the sides of a strap, then the strap is cross bolted=
from the sides, through the block from outside. I=E2=80=99m wondering if =
this is a bit of overkill. Based on your recommendation, it seems to be.
> > > > > >=20
> > > > > > Maybe I can send some pictures later to=
day, as we are pulling the engine today for other work.
> > > > > >=20
> > > > > > Phil
> > > > > >=20
> > > > > > Sent from my iPhone
> > > > > >=20
> > > > > >=20
> > > > > >=20
> > > > > > > > > > > > >=20
> > > > > > > On Nov 22, 2019, at 10:56 PM, Ton=
y Drews <tony@tonydrews.com> mailto:tony@tonydrews.com wrote:
> > > > > > >=20
> > > > > > > > > > > > >=20
> > > > > > > > > > > > >=20
> > > > > > > =20
> > > > > > >=20
> > > > > > > I run that setup, it was an uncle=
jack trick. Here's what he wrote about that (on my engine building tips p=
age):
> > > > > > >=20
> > > > > > > "I also like to strap the center =
main to add rigidity to the bottom end. To do this, mill off the cast face=
of the main flush with the surfaces for the head bolts. Get a front strap =
for a Chevy 400 block. You must enlarge the holes in the strap and you mus=
t use longer bolts. Some builders feel that this is totally unnecessary, =
but since starting to do this, I have never had a main bearing deteriorate =
faster than a rod bearing, which is something that happens more frequently =
than you would expect."
> > > > > > >=20
> > > > > > > Regards, Tony Drews
> > > > > > >=20
> > > > > > > =20
> > > > > > >=20
> > > > > > > On 11/22/2019 3:58 PM, Phil Gott =
via Fot wrote:
> > > > > > >=20
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >=20
> > > > > > > > Has anyone seen the need to=
add extra support to the center main on the TR wet sleeve engine? We have =
an engine that has a steel bridge cross-bolted underneath and supporting th=
e center main cap. Is this needed? Just took 3 factory cranks to the machin=
e shop and all three were bent about .002 in (.002 run out at center main w=
hen supported on first and last mains.) Two of these were raced, the third =
was removed from a tired street engine. note: None of these cranks came out=
of the engine with extra support at the center.
> > > > > > > > =20
> > > > > > > >=20
> > > > > > > > Curious as to the need for =
the extra support.
> > > > > > > > =20
> > > > > > > >=20
> > > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > > > =20
> > > > > > > >=20
> > > > > > > > Phil Gott
> > > > > > > > =20
> > > > > > > >=20
> > > > > > > > 114 TR4A
> > > > > > > > =20
> > > > > > > >=20
> > > > > > > > =20
> > > > > > > > =20
> > > > > > > > =20
> > > > > > > >=20
> > > > > > > > Sent from my iPhone
> > > > > > > > =20
> > > > > > > >=20
> > > > > > > > ___________________________=
____________________
> > > > > > > > =20
> > > > > > > >=20
> > > > > > > > fot@autox.team.net mailto:f=
ot@autox.team.net
> > > > > > > > =20
> > > > > > > >=20
> > > > > > > > =20
> > > > > > > > =20
> > > > > > > > =20
> > > > > > > >=20
> > > > > > > > http://www.fot-racing.com
> > > > > > > > =20
> > > > > > > >=20
> > > > > > > > =20
> > > > > > > > =20
> > > > > > > > =20
> > > > > > > >=20
> > > > > > > > Donate: http://www.team.net=
/donate.html
> > > > > > > > =20
> > > > > > > >=20
> > > > > > > > Archive: http://autox.team.=
net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
> > > > > > > > =20
> > > > > > > >=20
> > > > > > > > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://=
autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/tony@tonydrews.com
> > > > > > > > =20
> > > > > > > >=20
> > > > > > > > =20
> > > > > > > > =20
> > > > > > > > =20
> > > > > > > >=20
> > > > > > > > =20
> > > > > > > > =20
> > > > > > > > =20
> > > > > > > >=20
> > > > > > > > =20
> > > > > > > > =20
> > > > > > > > =20
> > > > > > > >=20
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >=20
> > > > > > > > > > > > >=20
> > > > > > > > > > >=20
> > > > > > > > >=20
> > > > > > >=20
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > fot@autox.team.net
> >=20
> > http://www.fot-racing.com
> >=20
> > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> > Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipe=
rmail/fot
> > Unsubscribe/Manage: http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/j=
hasty@mhc-law.com
> >=20
> >=20
> >=20
> > > _______________________________________________
> fot@autox.team.net
>=20
> http://www.fot-racing.com
>=20
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/=
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@comcast.net
>=20
>=20
>=20
------=_Part_133203_1938891065.1574648863380
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!doctype html>
<html>
<head>=20
<meta charset=3D"UTF-8">=20
</head>
<body>
<div style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif;=
color: rgb(51, 51, 51);">
My brother worked for Gran Turismo Jaguar in Northern Ohio a few decades=
ago and I remember well him telling me they taught him how to straighten c=
ranks with a mallet of some sort, set up in a rotational device. I t=
hought it was barbaric at the time having never heard of that sort of thing=
, but GTJ definitely knew what they were doing. GTJ built championshi=
p winning Jags.
</div>
<div style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica, arial, sans-serif;=
color: rgb(51, 51, 51);">
Dave H.
</div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
On November 24, 2019 at 4:57 PM "John H. Hasty via Fot" <fot@autox.te=
am.net> wrote:=20
<br>=20
<br> Chris: That is exactly how we built the roller bearing crank =
half's for our two stroke GP bikes... well placed blows with a brass hammer=
and in an hour or so you end up with a straight crank=20
<br>=20
<br>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
Sent from my iPhone
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<br>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
On Nov 24, 2019, at 6:27 PM, Chris Marx via Fot <fot@autox.team.net=
> wrote:=20
<br>=20
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div class=3D"ox-bcb1e9c26f-WordSection1">
<p class=3D"ox-bcb1e9c26f-MsoNormal">Hi Phil,</p>
<p class=3D"ox-bcb1e9c26f-MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class=3D"ox-bcb1e9c26f-MsoNormal">If I give a crank to the machine=
shop for testing and maybe polishing they also correcting straightness.</p=
>
<p class=3D"ox-bcb1e9c26f-MsoNormal">They using a hammer and a wedge =
like tool with brass or bronze surface and giving it a big blow at some pla=
ces to make it straight.</p>
<p class=3D"ox-bcb1e9c26f-MsoNormal">They also checking with magna fl=
ux system for cracks.</p>
<p class=3D"ox-bcb1e9c26f-MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class=3D"ox-bcb1e9c26f-MsoNormal">I run 0.0027=E2=80=9D main beari=
ng clearance.</p>
<p class=3D"ox-bcb1e9c26f-MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class=3D"ox-bcb1e9c26f-MsoNormal">For sure Kas throw in is right. =
I keep the revs below 6k with the standard crank.</p>
<p class=3D"ox-bcb1e9c26f-MsoNormal">Many people going up to 7k with =
their engines but I don=E2=80=99t dare. A billet crank might help a little =
but I saw billet cranks breaking too.</p>
<p class=3D"ox-bcb1e9c26f-MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class=3D"ox-bcb1e9c26f-MsoNormal">Engine power is not my main conc=
ern. Cornering speed is.</p>
<p class=3D"ox-bcb1e9c26f-MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class=3D"ox-bcb1e9c26f-MsoNormal">Cheers</p>
<p class=3D"ox-bcb1e9c26f-MsoNormal">Chris</p>
<p class=3D"ox-bcb1e9c26f-MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class=3D"ox-bcb1e9c26f-MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border: none; border-top: solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt; padding=
: 3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm;">
<p class=3D"ox-bcb1e9c26f-MsoNormal"><strong>Von:</strong> Fot <=
fot-bounces@autox.team.net> <strong>Im Auftrag von </strong>Phil Gott vi=
a Fot<br> <strong>Gesendet:</strong> Sonntag, 24. November 2019 22:03<br> <=
strong>An:</strong> Friends Of Triumph <fot@autox.team.net><br> <stro=
ng>Betreff:</strong> Re: [Fot] Center main support</p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"ox-bcb1e9c26f-MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class=3D"ox-bcb1e9c26f-MsoNormal">Interesting, Chris:</p>
<div>
<p class=3D"ox-bcb1e9c26f-MsoNormal">My machine shop said that .002=
=E2=80=9D run out at the center main, with the crank supported and spun on =
numbers 1 and 3 was a sign that it was developing high levels of internal s=
tress (work hardening) and that it should be retired. They aim for 0 run ou=
t under these conditions. Based on what you=E2=80=99ve said, I wonder if th=
ey are being overly cautious. As they do not grind cranks themselves ( only=
polishing and balancing), they had little to gain from that diagnosis.<br>=
Thanks for the input.</p>
<div>
<p class=3D"ox-bcb1e9c26f-MsoNormal">Sent from my iPhone</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"ox-bcb1e9c26f-MsoNormal"><br> <br></p>
<blockquote>
<p style=3D"margin-bottom: 12.0pt;" class=3D"ox-bcb1e9c26f-MsoNorm=
al">On Nov 24, 2019, at 9:26 AM, Tony Drews <<a href=3D"mailto:tony@tony=
drews.com">tony@tonydrews.com</a>> wrote:</p>
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"ox-bcb1e9c26f-MsoNormal"> <br></p>
<p>Wow! It's very nicely done. Certainly overkill.</p>
<p>Regards, Tony</p>
<div>
<p class=3D"ox-bcb1e9c26f-MsoNormal">On 11/23/2019 9:11 PM, Phil =
Gott wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote>
<p class=3D"ox-bcb1e9c26f-MsoNormal">Here are some photos:</p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"ox-bcb1e9c26f-MsoNormal"><image0.jpeg></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"ox-bcb1e9c26f-MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p class=3D"ox-bcb1e9c26f-MsoNormal"><image1.jpeg></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"ox-bcb1e9c26f-MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p class=3D"ox-bcb1e9c26f-MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p class=3D"ox-bcb1e9c26f-MsoNormal"><image2.jpeg></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"ox-bcb1e9c26f-MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"ox-bcb1e9c26f-MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"ox-bcb1e9c26f-MsoNormal">Sent from my iPhone</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"ox-bcb1e9c26f-MsoNormal"><br> <br></p>
<blockquote>
<p style=3D"margin-bottom: 12.0pt;" class=3D"ox-bcb1e9c26f-Mso=
Normal">On Nov 23, 2019, at 12:23 PM, Tony Drews <a href=3D"mailto:tony@ton=
ydrews.com"><tony@tonydrews.com></a> wrote:</p>
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"ox-bcb1e9c26f-MsoNormal"> <br></p>
<p>I agree, that sounds like overkill. Mine only require=
s the top of the cap to be machined flat, no other block mods.</p>
<p>Regards, Tony</p>
<div>
<p class=3D"ox-bcb1e9c26f-MsoNormal">On 11/23/2019 5:42 AM, P=
hil Gott wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote>
<p class=3D"ox-bcb1e9c26f-MsoNormal">Thanks again, Tony:</p>
<div>
<p class=3D"ox-bcb1e9c26f-MsoNormal">The one we have, built =
by the late Bill Throop, in addition to reinforcing the cap itself, h=
as the block machined internally to accept the sides of a strap, then the s=
trap is cross bolted from the sides, through the block from outside. =
I=E2=80=99m wondering if this is a bit of overkill. Based on your rec=
ommendation, it seems to be.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"ox-bcb1e9c26f-MsoNormal">Maybe I can send some p=
ictures later today, as we are pulling the engine today for other work.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin-bottom: 12.0pt;" class=3D"ox-bcb1e9c26f-M=
soNormal">Phil</p>
<div>
<p class=3D"ox-bcb1e9c26f-MsoNormal">Sent from my iPhone</p=
>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"ox-bcb1e9c26f-MsoNormal"><br> <br></p>
<blockquote>
<p style=3D"margin-bottom: 12.0pt;" class=3D"ox-bcb1e9c26f=
-MsoNormal">On Nov 22, 2019, at 10:56 PM, Tony Drews <a href=3D"mailto:tony=
@tonydrews.com"><tony@tonydrews.com></a> wrote:</p>
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"ox-bcb1e9c26f-MsoNormal"> <br></p>
<p>I run that setup, it was an uncle jack trick. Her=
e's what he wrote about that (on my engine building tips page):</p>
<p><span style=3D"font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: 'Tahoma'=
,sans-serif; color: black; background: white;">"I also like to strap the ce=
nter main to add rigidity to the bottom end. To do this, mill off the=
cast face of the main flush with the surfaces for the head bolts. Get a fr=
ont strap for a Chevy 400 block. You must enlarge the holes in the strap&nb=
sp; and you must use longer bolts. Some builders feel that this=
is totally unnecessary, but since starting to do this, I have never had a =
main bearing deteriorate faster than a rod bearing, which is something that=
happens more frequently than you would expect."</span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"ox-bcb1e9c26f-MsoNormal">Regards, Tony Drews<=
/p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"ox-bcb1e9c26f-MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"ox-bcb1e9c26f-MsoNormal">On 11/22/2019 3:58 P=
M, Phil Gott via Fot wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote>
<pre>Has anyone seen the need to add extra support to the=
center main on the TR wet sleeve engine? We have an engine that has a stee=
l bridge cross-bolted underneath and supporting the center main cap. Is thi=
s needed? Just took 3 factory cranks to the machine shop and all three were=
bent about .002 in (.002 run out at center main when supported on first an=
d last mains.) Two of these were raced, the third was removed from a tired =
street engine. note: None of these cranks came out of the engine with extra=
support at the center.
</pre>
<pre>Curious as to the need for the extra support.
</pre>
<pre>Thanks,
</pre>
<pre>Phil Gott
</pre>
<pre>114 TR4A
</pre>
<pre> =20
</pre>
<pre>Sent from my iPhone
</pre>
<pre>_______________________________________________
</pre>
<pre><a href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net";>fot@autox.team=
.net</a>
</pre>
<pre> =20
</pre>
<pre><a href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com";>http://www.fot=
-racing.com</a>
</pre>
<pre> =20
</pre>
<pre>Donate: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html";>=
</pre>
<pre>Archive: <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/archive";>h=
ttp://autox.team.net/archive</a> <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/pipermail/f=
ot">http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot</a>
</pre>
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/mailman/options/fot/tony@tonydrews.com">http://autox.team.net/mailman/opti=
ons/fot/tony@tonydrews.com</a>
</pre>
<pre> =20
</pre>
<pre> =20
</pre>
<pre> =20
</pre>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>_______________________________________________=20
<br> fot@autox.team.net=20
<br>=20
<br> http://www.fot-racing.com=20
<br>=20
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</div>
</blockquote>_______________________________________________=20
<br>fot@autox.team.net=20
<br>=20
<br>http://www.fot-racing.com=20
<br>=20
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<br>=20
<br>
</blockquote>
<div style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-family: helvetica,arial,sans-serif; c=
olor: #333333;" class=3D"default-style">
<br>
</div>=20
</body>
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