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Tapered bearings do not work very well in the TR7/8 5 speed so I would not=
expect much better in the TR3-6 box. Why not chuck the lay gear in your la=
the, bore out the hole a little deeper and make a long bronze oil-lite bear=
ing for it? I have done this dozens of time with no problems. Also mich the=
replacement lay shaft as the ones for MGBs are .0025" too small!
Barry
On Sunday, August 11, 2019, 11:31:25 AM CDT, Glenn Franco via Fot <fot@=
autox.team.net> wrote: =20
=20
Yes exactly right.By writing this post, I was actually hoping that someone=
had come up with a good method or tool to get that bugger out of the case.=
So far I have not. Its hard enough to get the left over shell of that beari=
ng out of the laygear when you can get the thrust washer out. I have had to=
resort to grinding a slot in the bearing shell to remove it.I would apprec=
iate it if someone has a procedure for installing a tapered roller bearing.=
=C2=A0I would be interested in giving it a try.Glenn =C2=A0
On Sun, Aug 11, 2019 at 9:55 AM fubog1 <fubog1@aol.com> wrote:
Yes Glenn that's exactly what happens.It's not an issue with the circlip g=
ears converted to the shell bearings obviously but too common with the pres=
sed only.I put a little loctite on them, they're usually a bitch to remove =
anyway.In addition to the high load on the rear of the laygear & bearing, i=
t's exacerbated by all of the little bits of metal generated directly above=
by the graunching going into 1st & reverse, that stuff gets behind the thr=
ust washer and eats up the backside of the washer & the case.I share your p=
ain...Glen
=20
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: Glenn Franco <brakey6666@gmail.com>
To: fubog1 <fubog1@aol.com>
Cc: John Styduhar <johnstydo@gmail.com>; FOT list <fot@autox.team.net>
Sent: Sun, Aug 11, 2019 8:43 am
Subject: Re: [Fot] Triumph 4 speed O/D's and Layshaft bearing failures.
Just to clarify, the problem is on both 4 speed and 4 speed O/D transmissio=
ns.Every failure I encounter is with the caged needle bearings not the loos=
e needle bearings in the very early transmissions. The last few years I hav=
e been rebuilding many TR3 and TR4 Transmissions. The bearing shell (that h=
olds the needles in place) works/walks along the shaft and forces itself in=
to the small thrust washer that is near the smaller 1st gear. The shell wil=
l then fracture into pieces and the remaining will dig into the thrust wash=
er and then the case if not removed soon enough.The caged bearing shells ar=
e available through Moss but the problem is getting that laygear out of the=
transmission case. As I stated earlier, to remove the laygear ( after the =
shaft is removed ) the small thrust washer needs to be removed so the layge=
ar can tilt and worked out of the case. When the bearing shell machines its=
way into the thrust washer its almost impossible to get it out. Then you h=
ave a scrap case on your hands.Glenn with 2 n's
On Sun, Aug 11, 2019 at 8:14 AM fubog1 <fubog1@aol.com> wrote:
That problem isn't unique to the O/D boxes.
Glen with 1 "n".
=20
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: John Styduhar via Fot <fot@autox.team.net>
To: Glenn Franco <brakey6666@gmail.com>
Cc: FOT list <fot@autox.team.net>
Sent: Sat, Aug 10, 2019 6:41 pm
Subject: Re: [Fot] Triumph 4 speed O/D's and Layshaft bearing failures.
Glenn, are you saying that the layshaft bearing failure you described is mo=
re prevalent when the tranny has an O/D or is it a general problem?=C2=A0 T=
hanks
On Sat, Aug 10, 2019 at 3:52 PM Glenn Franco via Fot <fot@autox.team.net> w=
rote:
Just finished another A Type Overdrive rebuild this afternoon. Next one I d=
o I'm going to insist that the owner bring a spare 4 speed for parts or may=
be 2.I very rarely find an overdrive transmission that the layshaft bearing=
next to 1st that hasn't walked and tried to escape the case through the th=
rust bearing. I have tried in vane to remove the laygear=C2=A0with one that=
ground its way into the thrust bearing and sometimes the case. I sometimes=
get the laygear out but in most cases the trans case with the laygear is s=
ent to scrap.Does anyone have a solution, trick, special tool, to ease the =
laygear out. The normal way is to remove the small thust bearing with a mag=
net so you can tilt the laygear enough to get it out. I have even once reso=
rted to=C2=A0a " Slugger Slide Hammer" and chain wrapped around the laygear=
to get it out. Didn't end well however.I did read somewhere that someone i=
s using a tapered roller bearing on that end which would make more sense th=
an the original design.Please adviseThanks in advanceGlennTR6, TR250, Miata=
, 47 MG TC For Sale, 73 BMW E10 2002 being restored________________________=
_______________________
fot@autox.team.net
http://www.fot-racing.com
Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
il.com
_______________________________________________
fot@autox.team.net
http://www.fot-racing.com
Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
m
_______________________________________________
fot@autox.team.net
http://www.fot-racing.com
Archive: http://autox.team.net/archive http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot
south.net
=20
------=_Part_2854309_1997647591.1565541945819
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<html><head></head><body><div class=3D"ydp31da7ba0yahoo-style-wrap" style=
=3D"font-family: Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 1=
3px;"><div></div>
<div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">Tapered bearings do not work=
very well in the TR7/8 5 speed so I would not expect much better in the TR=
3-6 box. Why not chuck the lay gear in your lathe, bore out the hole a litt=
le deeper and make a long bronze oil-lite bearing for it? I have done this =
dozens of time with no problems. Also mich the replacement lay shaft as the=
ones for MGBs are .0025" too small!</div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"f=
alse"><br></div><div dir=3D"ltr" data-setdir=3D"false">Barry</div><div><br>=
</div>
=20
</div><div id=3D"ydp23fa1c3cyahoo_quoted_5603625054" class=3D"ydp23=
fa1c3cyahoo_quoted">
<div style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, s=
ans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a;">
=20
<div>
On Sunday, August 11, 2019, 11:31:25 AM CDT, Glenn Fran=
co via Fot <fot@autox.team.net> wrote:
</div>
<div><br></div>
<div><br></div>
<div><div id=3D"ydp23fa1c3cyiv5653277419"><div dir=3D"ltr">=
<div>Yes exactly right.</div><div>By writing this post, I was actually hopi=
ng that someone had come up with a good method or tool to get that bugger o=
ut of the case.</div><div>So far I have not. </div><div>Its hard enough to =
get the left over shell of that bearing out of the laygear when you can get=
the thrust washer out. I have had to resort to grinding a slot in the bear=
ing shell to remove it.</div><div>I would appreciate it if someone has a pr=
ocedure for installing a tapered roller bearing. I would be interested=
in giving it a try.</div><div>Glenn <br></div></div><br><div class=
=3D"ydp23fa1c3cyiv5653277419gmail_quote"><div class=3D"ydp23fa1c3cyiv565327=
7419gmail_attr" dir=3D"ltr">On Sun, Aug 11, 2019 at 9:55 AM fubog1 <<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:fubog1@aol.com"; rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">fubog1@aol=
.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"ydp23fa1c3cyiv5653277419g=
mail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-=
color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;">
<div style=3D"font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; lin=
e-height: normal; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; color: black; =
font-stretch: normal;">
<div> <font size=3D"2">Yes Glenn that's exactly what happens.</font></div>
<div><font size=3D"2">It's not an issue with the circlip gears converted to=
the shell bearings obviously but too common with the pressed only.</font><=
/div>
<div><font size=3D"2">I put a little loctite on them, they're usually a bit=
ch to remove anyway.</font></div>
<div><font size=3D"2">In addition to the high load on the rear of the layge=
ar & bearing, it's exacerbated by all of the little bits of metal gener=
ated directly above by the graunching going into 1st & reverse, that st=
uff gets behind the thrust washer and eats up the backside of the washer &a=
mp; the case.</font></div>
<div><font size=3D"2">I share your pain...</font></div>
<div><font size=3D"2">Glen<br>
</font></div>
<div><font size=3D"2"><br>
</font></div><font size=3D"2">
<div> <br>
</div>
<div> <br>
</div>
<div style=3D"color:black;font-family:arial, helvetica;font-size:10pt;">---=
--Original Message-----<br>
From: Glenn Franco <<a href=3D"mailto:brakey6666@gmail.com"; rel=3D"nofol=
low" target=3D"_blank">brakey6666@gmail.com</a>><br>
To: fubog1 <<a href=3D"mailto:fubog1@aol.com"; rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D=
"_blank">fubog1@aol.com</a>><br>
Cc: John Styduhar <<a href=3D"mailto:johnstydo@gmail.com"; rel=3D"nofollo=
w" target=3D"_blank">johnstydo@gmail.com</a>>; FOT list <<a href=3D"m=
ailto:fot@autox.team.net" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank">fot@autox.team=
.net</a>><br>
Sent: Sun, Aug 11, 2019 8:43 am<br>
Subject: Re: [Fot] Triumph 4 speed O/D's and Layshaft bearing failures.<br>
<br>
<div id=3D"ydp23fa1c3cyiv5653277419gmail-m_4739331892266898199yiv7442328041=
">
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>Just to clarify, the problem is on both 4 speed and 4 speed O/D transm=
issions.</div>
<div>Every failure I encounter is with the caged needle bearings not the lo=
ose needle bearings in the very early transmissions. The last few years I h=
ave been rebuilding many TR3 and TR4 Transmissions. </div>
<div>The bearing shell (that holds the needles in place) works/walks along =
the shaft and forces itself into the small thrust washer that is near the s=
maller 1st gear. The shell will then fracture into pieces and the remaining=
will dig into the thrust washer and then the case if not removed soon enou=
gh.</div>
<div>The caged bearing shells are available through Moss but the problem is=
getting that laygear out of the transmission case. As I stated earlier, to=
remove the laygear ( after the shaft is removed ) the small thrust washer =
needs to be removed so the laygear can tilt and worked out of the case. </d=
iv>
<div>When the bearing shell machines its way into the thrust washer its alm=
ost impossible to get it out. Then you have a scrap case on your hands.</di=
v>
<div>Glenn with 2 n's<br clear=3D"none"></div>
</div>
<br clear=3D"none">
<div class=3D"ydp23fa1c3cyiv5653277419gmail-m_4739331892266898199yiv7442328=
041yqt3486745670" id=3D"ydp23fa1c3cyiv5653277419gmail-m_4739331892266898199=
yiv7442328041yqt55485">
<div class=3D"ydp23fa1c3cyiv5653277419gmail-m_4739331892266898199yiv7442328=
041gmail_quote">
<div class=3D"ydp23fa1c3cyiv5653277419gmail-m_4739331892266898199yiv7442328=
041gmail_attr" dir=3D"ltr">On Sun, Aug 11, 2019 at 8:14 AM fubog1 <<a sh=
ape=3D"rect">fubog1@aol.com</a>> wrote:<br clear=3D"none"></div>
<blockquote class=3D"ydp23fa1c3cyiv5653277419gmail-m_4739331892266898199yiv=
7442328041gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;b=
order-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:s=
olid;">
<div style=3D"font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; lin=
e-height: normal; font-family: Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; color: black; =
font-stretch: normal;">
<div> <font size=3D"2">That problem isn't unique to the O/D boxes.</font></=
div>
<div><font size=3D"2"><br clear=3D"none">
</font></div>
<div><font size=3D"2">Glen with 1 "n".</font></div>
<div><br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div> <br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div> <br clear=3D"none">
</div>
<div style=3D"color:black;font-family:arial, helvetica;font-size:10pt;">---=
--Original Message-----<br clear=3D"none">
From: John Styduhar via Fot <<a shape=3D"rect">fot@autox.team.net</a>>=
;<br clear=3D"none">
To: Glenn Franco <<a shape=3D"rect">brakey6666@gmail.com</a>><br clea=
r=3D"none">
Cc: FOT list <<a shape=3D"rect">fot@autox.team.net</a>><br clear=3D"n=
one">
Sent: Sat, Aug 10, 2019 6:41 pm<br clear=3D"none">
Subject: Re: [Fot] Triumph 4 speed O/D's and Layshaft bearing failures.<br =
clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
<div id=3D"ydp23fa1c3cyiv5653277419gmail-m_4739331892266898199yiv7442328041=
gmail-m_5102154560421217780yiv5940175818">
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div class=3D"ydp23fa1c3cyiv5653277419gmail-m_4739331892266898199yiv7442328=
041gmail-m_5102154560421217780yiv5940175818gmail_default" style=3D"font-siz=
e:small;">Glenn, are you saying that the layshaft bearing failure you descr=
ibed is more prevalent when the tranny has an O/D or is it a general proble=
m? Thanks</div>
<div class=3D"ydp23fa1c3cyiv5653277419gmail-m_4739331892266898199yiv7442328=
041gmail-m_5102154560421217780yiv5940175818gmail_default" style=3D"font-siz=
e:small;"><br clear=3D"none"></div>
</div>
<br clear=3D"none">
<div class=3D"ydp23fa1c3cyiv5653277419gmail-m_4739331892266898199yiv7442328=
041gmail-m_5102154560421217780yiv5940175818gmail_quote">
<div class=3D"ydp23fa1c3cyiv5653277419gmail-m_4739331892266898199yiv7442328=
041gmail-m_5102154560421217780yiv5940175818yqt2634990127" id=3D"ydp23fa1c3c=
yiv5653277419gmail-m_4739331892266898199yiv7442328041gmail-m_51021545604212=
17780yiv5940175818yqt95968">
<div class=3D"ydp23fa1c3cyiv5653277419gmail-m_4739331892266898199yiv7442328=
041gmail-m_5102154560421217780yiv5940175818gmail_attr" dir=3D"ltr">On Sat, =
Aug 10, 2019 at 3:52 PM Glenn Franco via Fot <<a shape=3D"rect">fot@auto=
x.team.net</a>> wrote:<br clear=3D"none"></div>
<blockquote class=3D"ydp23fa1c3cyiv5653277419gmail-m_4739331892266898199yiv=
7442328041gmail-m_5102154560421217780yiv5940175818gmail_quote" style=3D"mar=
gin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);b=
order-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>Just finished another A Type Overdrive rebuild this afternoon. Next on=
e I do I'm going to insist that the owner bring a spare 4 speed for parts o=
r maybe 2.</div>
<div>I very rarely find an overdrive transmission that the layshaft bearing=
next to 1st that hasn't walked and tried to escape the case through the th=
rust bearing. I have tried in vane to remove the laygear with one that=
ground its way into the thrust bearing and sometimes the case. I sometimes=
get the laygear out but in most cases the trans case with the laygear is s=
ent to scrap.</div>
<div>Does anyone have a solution, trick, special tool, to ease the laygear =
out. The normal way is to remove the small thust bearing with a magnet so y=
ou can tilt the laygear enough to get it out. I have even once resorted to&=
nbsp;a " Slugger Slide Hammer" and chain wrapped around the laygear to get =
it out. Didn't end well however.</div>
<div>I did read somewhere that someone is using a tapered roller bearing on=
that end which would make more sense than the original design.</div>
<div>Please advise</div>
<div>Thanks in advance</div>
<div>Glenn</div>
<div>TR6, TR250, Miata, 47 MG TC For Sale, 73 BMW E10 2002 being restored</=
div>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br clear=3D"none">
<a shape=3D"rect">fot@autox.team.net</a><br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
<a shape=3D"rect">http://www.fot-racing.com</a><br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
one">
Archive: <a shape=3D"rect">http://autox.team.net/archive</a> <a shape=3D"re=
ct">http://www.team.net/pipermail/fot<br clear=3D"none">
ions/fot/johnstydo@gmail.com</a><br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
<br clear=3D"none">
</blockquote></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"ydp23fa1c3cyiv5653277419gmail-m_4739331892266898199yiv7442328=
041gmail-m_5102154560421217780yqt2634990127" id=3D"ydp23fa1c3cyiv5653277419=
gmail-m_4739331892266898199yiv7442328041gmail-m_5102154560421217780yqt13738=
">_______________________________________________<br clear=3D"none"><a shap=
e=3D"rect">fot@autox.team.net</a><br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"none"><a s=
hape=3D"rect">http://www.fot-racing.com</a><br clear=3D"none"><br clear=3D"=
none">Donate: <a shape=3D"rect">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br clea=
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></div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</font></div><font size=3D"2">
</font></blockquote></div></div>___________________________________________=
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