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[Fot] Has anybody ran these new brake calipers?

Subject: [Fot] Has anybody ran these new brake calipers?
From: fasttrs at yahoo.com (Mike Munson)
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2018 09:39:00 -0500
References: <CACZdCPXM-BEj2p2-P8d+acF+_hzNYN=RqGNmcHdu2y9k=p7FCg@mail.gmail.com> <5D3AFB4D-C6F8-490A-8208-12C4A604FA08@me.com> <CACZdCPVXF1T3pf3-qkioDquO2we8P-6-vdRoT471ZdWMq5J48w@mail.gmail.com> <496193370.404774.1520483083250@connect.xfinity.com> <ecca85f62de80b5889e447f64735f075@tr4racer.com> <1322324899.177432.1520525397543@connect.xfinity.com> <39824744-DEB7-48F7-94BA-343E99425A24@me.com> <1346618642.364769.1520526467307@connect.xfinity.com> <00b501d3b702$8aed9540$a0c8bfc0$@gmail.com> <141E5239-4C18-4225-AE0E-BFE10DB690DC@att.net> <CAMJWJcGaN_PTNjed3Hzaqs6vO23P72VsUFxmLgvthgLPQqOW1w@mail.gmail.com> <8B196567-7CEA-420C-9D89-7CAE21DE320E@aol.com> <8E35FFEE24954CEFBA469BBAC928A878@hpd530> <38fc19de-e0b3-23d2-797b-d741d26629c1@tonydrews.com> <CAGiQU1C_Zo+XQff3-yo0T2ULPahJ6f+QP=Vua1s0eHcgU5ZHUQ@mail.gmail.com>
I have held my tongue for many years on this subject, and what I have to say 
may get me banned completely from the FOT, but after loosing my son Sam, my 
Grandmother and my House getting hit by a small tornado in the last few months 
I?m starting to loose my filter.
I will try to be as diplomatic as I can but here goes.
I have run many of the K-cup races over the years and could give you a whole 
list of cars that wouldn?t pass any kind of scrutiny from either the Vintage or 
SCCA organizations (and I quit looking years ago.) I finally decided Racers are 
gonna do what Racers do.
 (My car passed Scca?s heavy scrutiny at the Runoffs this past year). 
I choose to come to the races as an ?outsider? because I do enjoy the 
camaraderie of all of our group who choose to beat our heads against the wall 
and push these Triumphs way beyond their intended purposes.

Mike Munson
#28 EP TR6

> On Mar 10, 2018, at 10:58 AM, Kas Kastner via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> 
> wrote:
> 
> There are times when you wish you had just shut up and let the thread pass 
> you by.  I have just had one of those times.  It was not my intent to cast 
> any aspersions but just to tell how it was back when. It was a different 
> world. If you wanted to make a phone call you needed a nickle but a phone box 
> was on every corner and gasoline was 28 cents a gallon and it was 100 octane. 
>  So maybe I should have commented on that instead. 
> 
> Certainly if you adhere to the old rules the field would seen  be down to 
> three or four cars and they might not make it to the end of a race.  I have 
> no complaint about the present manner of preparation or driving either.  Have 
> a good time and use what ever is needed to get to the end. 
> 
> Never be beaten by equipment.
> 
> 
>> On Fri, Mar 9, 2018 at 11:18 PM, Tony Drews via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> 
>> wrote:
>> Bill, I've really tried, but I can't help but respond to being called out in 
>> this one.  I know you said it doesn't matter to you, lets just race - and 
>> that's my feeling too.
>> 
>> Not sure how a brake question turned into the annual "what is vintage" 
>> debate - seems late in the season for it this time...
>> But...  For the record, it's a Ford 8" rear end, not a 9".  Remember when we 
>> used to break axles and roll our cars?  I do, very vividly.  The memory of 
>> the pavement whizzing by my left ear as I was sliding on the drivers door 
>> before the car started to barrel roll is indelibly printed in my memory.  
>> Before the "southwick" axle conversion (which uses Ford 8" rear axle axles 
>> by the way), the fix for this was to put a Ford 8" or a Dana rear axle in 
>> the car instead of the stock unit.  It was a SAFETY change, not a 
>> performance improvement.  That's what the prior owner did to my car - put in 
>> a Ford 8" so it wouldn't roll.  It weighs more than a Triumph axle, and has 
>> roughly the same ratios available as a Triumph unit.  To switch to a Triumph 
>> axle would cost enough I'd need to take at least half a season off of 
>> racing, probably a full season.  Afterwards, my car would be FASTER because 
>> it would weigh LESS.  Is the Ford axle legal?  Probably not, now that the 
>> Southwick conversion is accepted by every vintage organization in the US for 
>> safety reasons.  Is it worth taking a year off of racing to put the 
>> "correct" part there?  I say - no, lets race instead.
>> 
>> A strict reading of the axle housing must be stock rule would       also 
>> prohibit the Southwick conversion and we're back to the cars destroying 
>> themselves.  That seems counterproductive to me, but I'm not a purist.  :)
>> 
>> Billet cranks?  Carillo rods?  I don't think the '62 GCR allowed those.  
>> Certainly not allowed when we ran SCCA in the early 70's.  Many of us run 
>> those now because the stock stuff breaks and saws your engine in half.  
>> However, THOSE DO provide a possible performance advantage over a strict 
>> reading of the rules because we can run higher RPM's semi-reliably.  Good 
>> stock stuff is hard to come by and we do what we have to in order to keep 
>> our awesome VINTAGE Triumph's on the track - I figure that's most of our 
>> justification for those parts.
>> 
>> Uncle jack's car (Dad) was extremely legal, and when we raced each other our 
>> cars were virtually identical in performance.  So if I'm cheating to be 
>> faster I must be doing a bad job of it.
>> To me, parts substitution that keeps our cars running is in a very gray area 
>> that some consider "cheating" and others consider "just keeping it running". 
>>  The trans replacement falls under that category.  I'm aware of one vintage 
>> organization that's taken a hard line on transmissions - Bill, yours would 
>> be illegal there.  And as a result guys running GT-6's are pretty much 
>> screwed.  I don't know why the organization would rather see a competitor 
>> replace a tranny every race weekend rather than have them out on the track 
>> competing.
>> 
>> I'm just glad that I get to do this as often as I can afford, and get to 
>> hang with a bunch of really neat people.
>> 
>> I could write another book on front brakes (the original topic), one on 
>> various engine parts, carburetors, transmissions.  I already wrote the one 
>> on axles (above).  
>> I'd rather folks not be terribly nit-picky about this stuff and just 
>> appreciate the fact that we can muster up enough Triumphs at an event that 
>> the organizers WANT us there and will give us a race to ourselves.
>> 
>> Regards, Tony Drews
>> 
>>> On 3/9/2018 8:06 AM, Bill Tobin via Fot wrote:
>>> Bill, if all the cheaters in vintage were black flagged, half the field 
>>> wouldn't finish! Cheaters is a harsh word; non-compliant sounds better.
>>> I know of guys with mid-50's Corvettes, and one T Bird, who run big disc 
>>> brakes, not the original drums. One of whom runs a vintage 
>>> organization!!!!!!
>>> Also, I like Tony but a 9 inch Ford diff in a TR4? All vintage rules say 
>>> the diff housing has to be stock.
>>> I also like Sam, who's given me a lot of advice over the years, but is his 
>>> car truely vintage legal? Frankly, I don't care.
>>> This will probably get me blackballed, but....
>>> I also don't give a hoot what you run or how legal it is or isn't. Just go 
>>> out and have fun.
>>> I've gotten 1 (one) medal in 11 years of vintage racing; not a very 
>>> successful effort, you might say. (so would I!). But I've had an 'effen 
>>> blast! And met a bunch of great people. And did what I set out to do.
>>>  
>>> OK, I wrote this last night and thought I'd sleep on it. After reading the 
>>> comment about Formula Libra, I guess other people feel as I do.
>>> Were all the cars running today raced "back in the day" or were they built 
>>> to go vintage racing today?
>>> Ever see a tech inspector crawl under your car and check to see if the 
>>> drain plugs were safety wired? Or check brakes or diffs?
>>> Full disclosure: I run a Celica 5 speed, legal according to the rules. 
>>> Hitachi carbs (the Japs took SU's and improved them).
>>> I don't like cheaters. I help with the Erie Marathon where 43% or our 
>>> finishers qualified for the Boston Marathon, the goal of every good runner. 
>>> The last couple years we ferreted out 3 cheaters. They will never, ever be 
>>> allowed into the Boston Marathon. That's why I like running, kind of a pure 
>>> sport where technology doesn't help you much.
>>> OK, end of rant.
>>> Hang loose. (I'm reading Brian Wilson's book, so I thought a surfing term 
>>> would be ok!)
>>> Bill
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Bill Dentinger via Fot
>>> To: John Styduhar
>>> Cc: fot at autox. team. net
>>> Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2018 9:59 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Fot] Has anybody ran these new brake calipers?
>>> 
>>> Good for SVRA. If I were the Vintage Grand Poo Pah, I would take a note of 
>>> tire cheaters on the False Grid, and then bring em in with a Meat Ball Flag 
>>> after one lap in the Feature Race. 
>>> 
>>> Bill Dentinger
>>> 
>>> PS Three sets of tires needed.  One for qualifying...one for the feature 
>>> race...and a special set for Tech. That latter set can be experienced, but 
>>> must have a minimum tread depth.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> On Mar 8, 2018, at 2:08 PM, John Styduhar via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> The only item that SVRA regularly checks is tires from my experience.  And 
>>>> they do that at each gridding.
>>>> 
>>>>> On Thu, Mar 8, 2018 at 2:49 PM, Paul Ricco via Fot <fot at 
>>>>> autox.team.net> wrote:
>>>>> We have not had issues with stock calipers.  We run Hawk or Carbotech 
>>>>> brake pads and good brake fluid.  We do bleed the brakes regularly and 
>>>>> all seems to be working good.
>>>>> 
>>>>> It would be nice to get the benefit of less unsprung weight on the front 
>>>>> suspension by switching to aluminum.  However, I do not know of any 
>>>>> vintage organization that really allows it by their rules.  We all know 
>>>>> that that do not get enforced on a regular basis.  However, I do think 
>>>>> SVRA has made a great effort to get people to use a stock type caliper at 
>>>>> their events. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Paul
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Mar 8, 2018, at 11:26 AM, Chris Marx via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> 
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I?m still using the original brakes the car came with.
>>>>>> I?ve put in some nice brake pads and that is working well for me.
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>> Chris
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> Von: Fot <fot-bounces at autox.team.net> Im Auftrag von DAVE HOGYE via 
>>>>>> Fot
>>>>>> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 8. M?rz 2018 17:28
>>>>>> An: Scott Janzen <sjanzen at me.com>
>>>>>> Cc: Friends of Triumph' Triumph <fot at autox.team.net>
>>>>>> Betreff: Re: [Fot] Has anybody ran these new brake calipers?
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> Good call, Scott.  The Wilwood calipers are aluminum, but otherwise look 
>>>>>> very similar to the the P or PB calipers.
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> DH
>>>>>>> On March 8, 2018 at 8:21 AM Scott Janzen <sjanzen at me.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> good to check your club rules first though, if enforced.  VRG says you 
>>>>>>> need to use the original equipment, and SVRA says 
>>>>>>> Alternate calipers or wheel cylinders must be of the same material, 
>>>>>>> design and number of pistons as the original component. There must be 
>>>>>>> no increase in the frictional surface of the pads or shoes. 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> On Mar 8, 2018, at 11:09 AM, DAVE HOGYE via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> 
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> The quality of the new calipers is somewhat                             
>>>>>>>                       suspect, but seem to work as needed.
>>>>>>> The first pair that I bought from BPNW had a yellow (anodized ?) finish 
>>>>>>> with numbers in                                                   the 
>>>>>>> castings.  The second pair from BPNW 4 years later have a silver finish 
>>>>>>> and no numbers in the casting which made me wonder about the quality.  
>>>>>>> My first set has been on my car from 2013.  13 race weekends a total of 
>>>>>>> 3,800 miles.
>>>>>>> Wilwood makes beautiful replacements now.  They are anodized black.  I 
>>>>>>> far as I can tell, they will fit our Triumphs, but haven't made a 
>>>>>>> complete comparison.  Of course the price is higher, but more 
>>>>>>> equivalent to the importance of good brakes. 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> DH
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On March 8, 2018 at 2:54 AM Henry Frye via Fot <fot at autox.team.net> 
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I have seen these available for a while now, but fear they are made 
>>>>>>>> somewhere we don't want to know from materials I don't want to think 
>>>>>>>> about. I'm not brave enough to put one of these on a street car, let 
>>>>>>>> alone my race car.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Has anybody tried these calipers yet? Any feedback???
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> As long as good cores are available for 16P's, I'm rebuilding OEM 
>>>>>>>> calipers.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Henry
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On 2018-03-07 23:24, DAVE HOGYE via Fot wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> BTW, the PB calipers are available new for around $100 each new.
>>>>>>>>> That's pretty inexpensive for such an important part.  I purchased
>>>>>>>>> another set when I thought I might be having a problem, but ended up
>>>>>>>>> just changing pads.  I'm glad to have a new pair standing by.  Then I
>>>>>>>>> can rebuild at my leisure.
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> fot at autox.team.net
>>>>>>>> 
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>>>>>>>> 
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>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> fot at autox.team.net
>>>>>>> 
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>>>>>>>  
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> fot at autox.team.net
>>>>>> 
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>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> fot at autox.team.net
>>>>> 
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>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
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>>>> 
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>>> 
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