I have held my tongue for many years on this subject, and what I have to say
may get me banned completely from the FOT, but after loosing my son Sam, my
Grandmother and my House getting hit by a small tornado in the last few months
I?m starting to loose my filter.
I will try to be as diplomatic as I can but here goes.
I have run many of the K-cup races over the years and could give you a whole
list of cars that wouldn?t pass any kind of scrutiny from either the Vintage or
SCCA organizations (and I quit looking years ago.) I finally decided Racers are
gonna do what Racers do.
(My car passed Scca?s heavy scrutiny at the Runoffs this past year).
I choose to come to the races as an ?outsider? because I do enjoy the
camaraderie of all of our group who choose to beat our heads against the wall
and push these Triumphs way beyond their intended purposes.
Mike Munson
#28 EP TR6
> On Mar 10, 2018, at 10:58 AM, Kas Kastner via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
> wrote:
>
> There are times when you wish you had just shut up and let the thread pass
> you by. I have just had one of those times. It was not my intent to cast
> any aspersions but just to tell how it was back when. It was a different
> world. If you wanted to make a phone call you needed a nickle but a phone box
> was on every corner and gasoline was 28 cents a gallon and it was 100 octane.
> So maybe I should have commented on that instead.
>
> Certainly if you adhere to the old rules the field would seen be down to
> three or four cars and they might not make it to the end of a race. I have
> no complaint about the present manner of preparation or driving either. Have
> a good time and use what ever is needed to get to the end.
>
> Never be beaten by equipment.
>
>
>> On Fri, Mar 9, 2018 at 11:18 PM, Tony Drews via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
>> wrote:
>> Bill, I've really tried, but I can't help but respond to being called out in
>> this one. I know you said it doesn't matter to you, lets just race - and
>> that's my feeling too.
>>
>> Not sure how a brake question turned into the annual "what is vintage"
>> debate - seems late in the season for it this time...
>> But... For the record, it's a Ford 8" rear end, not a 9". Remember when we
>> used to break axles and roll our cars? I do, very vividly. The memory of
>> the pavement whizzing by my left ear as I was sliding on the drivers door
>> before the car started to barrel roll is indelibly printed in my memory.
>> Before the "southwick" axle conversion (which uses Ford 8" rear axle axles
>> by the way), the fix for this was to put a Ford 8" or a Dana rear axle in
>> the car instead of the stock unit. It was a SAFETY change, not a
>> performance improvement. That's what the prior owner did to my car - put in
>> a Ford 8" so it wouldn't roll. It weighs more than a Triumph axle, and has
>> roughly the same ratios available as a Triumph unit. To switch to a Triumph
>> axle would cost enough I'd need to take at least half a season off of
>> racing, probably a full season. Afterwards, my car would be FASTER because
>> it would weigh LESS. Is the Ford axle legal? Probably not, now that the
>> Southwick conversion is accepted by every vintage organization in the US for
>> safety reasons. Is it worth taking a year off of racing to put the
>> "correct" part there? I say - no, lets race instead.
>>
>> A strict reading of the axle housing must be stock rule would also
>> prohibit the Southwick conversion and we're back to the cars destroying
>> themselves. That seems counterproductive to me, but I'm not a purist. :)
>>
>> Billet cranks? Carillo rods? I don't think the '62 GCR allowed those.
>> Certainly not allowed when we ran SCCA in the early 70's. Many of us run
>> those now because the stock stuff breaks and saws your engine in half.
>> However, THOSE DO provide a possible performance advantage over a strict
>> reading of the rules because we can run higher RPM's semi-reliably. Good
>> stock stuff is hard to come by and we do what we have to in order to keep
>> our awesome VINTAGE Triumph's on the track - I figure that's most of our
>> justification for those parts.
>>
>> Uncle jack's car (Dad) was extremely legal, and when we raced each other our
>> cars were virtually identical in performance. So if I'm cheating to be
>> faster I must be doing a bad job of it.
>> To me, parts substitution that keeps our cars running is in a very gray area
>> that some consider "cheating" and others consider "just keeping it running".
>> The trans replacement falls under that category. I'm aware of one vintage
>> organization that's taken a hard line on transmissions - Bill, yours would
>> be illegal there. And as a result guys running GT-6's are pretty much
>> screwed. I don't know why the organization would rather see a competitor
>> replace a tranny every race weekend rather than have them out on the track
>> competing.
>>
>> I'm just glad that I get to do this as often as I can afford, and get to
>> hang with a bunch of really neat people.
>>
>> I could write another book on front brakes (the original topic), one on
>> various engine parts, carburetors, transmissions. I already wrote the one
>> on axles (above).
>> I'd rather folks not be terribly nit-picky about this stuff and just
>> appreciate the fact that we can muster up enough Triumphs at an event that
>> the organizers WANT us there and will give us a race to ourselves.
>>
>> Regards, Tony Drews
>>
>>> On 3/9/2018 8:06 AM, Bill Tobin via Fot wrote:
>>> Bill, if all the cheaters in vintage were black flagged, half the field
>>> wouldn't finish! Cheaters is a harsh word; non-compliant sounds better.
>>> I know of guys with mid-50's Corvettes, and one T Bird, who run big disc
>>> brakes, not the original drums. One of whom runs a vintage
>>> organization!!!!!!
>>> Also, I like Tony but a 9 inch Ford diff in a TR4? All vintage rules say
>>> the diff housing has to be stock.
>>> I also like Sam, who's given me a lot of advice over the years, but is his
>>> car truely vintage legal? Frankly, I don't care.
>>> This will probably get me blackballed, but....
>>> I also don't give a hoot what you run or how legal it is or isn't. Just go
>>> out and have fun.
>>> I've gotten 1 (one) medal in 11 years of vintage racing; not a very
>>> successful effort, you might say. (so would I!). But I've had an 'effen
>>> blast! And met a bunch of great people. And did what I set out to do.
>>>
>>> OK, I wrote this last night and thought I'd sleep on it. After reading the
>>> comment about Formula Libra, I guess other people feel as I do.
>>> Were all the cars running today raced "back in the day" or were they built
>>> to go vintage racing today?
>>> Ever see a tech inspector crawl under your car and check to see if the
>>> drain plugs were safety wired? Or check brakes or diffs?
>>> Full disclosure: I run a Celica 5 speed, legal according to the rules.
>>> Hitachi carbs (the Japs took SU's and improved them).
>>> I don't like cheaters. I help with the Erie Marathon where 43% or our
>>> finishers qualified for the Boston Marathon, the goal of every good runner.
>>> The last couple years we ferreted out 3 cheaters. They will never, ever be
>>> allowed into the Boston Marathon. That's why I like running, kind of a pure
>>> sport where technology doesn't help you much.
>>> OK, end of rant.
>>> Hang loose. (I'm reading Brian Wilson's book, so I thought a surfing term
>>> would be ok!)
>>> Bill
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: Bill Dentinger via Fot
>>> To: John Styduhar
>>> Cc: fot at autox. team. net
>>> Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2018 9:59 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Fot] Has anybody ran these new brake calipers?
>>>
>>> Good for SVRA. If I were the Vintage Grand Poo Pah, I would take a note of
>>> tire cheaters on the False Grid, and then bring em in with a Meat Ball Flag
>>> after one lap in the Feature Race.
>>>
>>> Bill Dentinger
>>>
>>> PS Three sets of tires needed. One for qualifying...one for the feature
>>> race...and a special set for Tech. That latter set can be experienced, but
>>> must have a minimum tread depth.
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Mar 8, 2018, at 2:08 PM, John Styduhar via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The only item that SVRA regularly checks is tires from my experience. And
>>>> they do that at each gridding.
>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Mar 8, 2018 at 2:49 PM, Paul Ricco via Fot <fot at
>>>>> autox.team.net> wrote:
>>>>> We have not had issues with stock calipers. We run Hawk or Carbotech
>>>>> brake pads and good brake fluid. We do bleed the brakes regularly and
>>>>> all seems to be working good.
>>>>>
>>>>> It would be nice to get the benefit of less unsprung weight on the front
>>>>> suspension by switching to aluminum. However, I do not know of any
>>>>> vintage organization that really allows it by their rules. We all know
>>>>> that that do not get enforced on a regular basis. However, I do think
>>>>> SVRA has made a great effort to get people to use a stock type caliper at
>>>>> their events.
>>>>>
>>>>> Paul
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mar 8, 2018, at 11:26 AM, Chris Marx via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I?m still using the original brakes the car came with.
>>>>>> I?ve put in some nice brake pads and that is working well for me.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>> Chris
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Von: Fot <fot-bounces at autox.team.net> Im Auftrag von DAVE HOGYE via
>>>>>> Fot
>>>>>> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 8. M?rz 2018 17:28
>>>>>> An: Scott Janzen <sjanzen at me.com>
>>>>>> Cc: Friends of Triumph' Triumph <fot at autox.team.net>
>>>>>> Betreff: Re: [Fot] Has anybody ran these new brake calipers?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Good call, Scott. The Wilwood calipers are aluminum, but otherwise look
>>>>>> very similar to the the P or PB calipers.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> DH
>>>>>>> On March 8, 2018 at 8:21 AM Scott Janzen <sjanzen at me.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> good to check your club rules first though, if enforced. VRG says you
>>>>>>> need to use the original equipment, and SVRA says
>>>>>>> Alternate calipers or wheel cylinders must be of the same material,
>>>>>>> design and number of pistons as the original component. There must be
>>>>>>> no increase in the frictional surface of the pads or shoes.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mar 8, 2018, at 11:09 AM, DAVE HOGYE via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The quality of the new calipers is somewhat
>>>>>>> suspect, but seem to work as needed.
>>>>>>> The first pair that I bought from BPNW had a yellow (anodized ?) finish
>>>>>>> with numbers in the
>>>>>>> castings. The second pair from BPNW 4 years later have a silver finish
>>>>>>> and no numbers in the casting which made me wonder about the quality.
>>>>>>> My first set has been on my car from 2013. 13 race weekends a total of
>>>>>>> 3,800 miles.
>>>>>>> Wilwood makes beautiful replacements now. They are anodized black. I
>>>>>>> far as I can tell, they will fit our Triumphs, but haven't made a
>>>>>>> complete comparison. Of course the price is higher, but more
>>>>>>> equivalent to the importance of good brakes.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> DH
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On March 8, 2018 at 2:54 AM Henry Frye via Fot <fot at autox.team.net>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I have seen these available for a while now, but fear they are made
>>>>>>>> somewhere we don't want to know from materials I don't want to think
>>>>>>>> about. I'm not brave enough to put one of these on a street car, let
>>>>>>>> alone my race car.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Has anybody tried these calipers yet? Any feedback???
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> As long as good cores are available for 16P's, I'm rebuilding OEM
>>>>>>>> calipers.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Henry
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 2018-03-07 23:24, DAVE HOGYE via Fot wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> BTW, the PB calipers are available new for around $100 each new.
>>>>>>>>> That's pretty inexpensive for such an important part. I purchased
>>>>>>>>> another set when I thought I might be having a problem, but ended up
>>>>>>>>> just changing pads. I'm glad to have a new pair standing by. Then I
>>>>>>>>> can rebuild at my leisure.
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> fot at autox.team.net
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://www.fot-racing.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
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>>>>>>>> at comcast.net
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> fot at autox.team.net
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.fot-racing.com
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> fot at autox.team.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.fot-racing.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> fot at autox.team.net
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.fot-racing.com
>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
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>>>>
>>>
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>>>
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