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*Never be beaten by equipment.*
This is all very interesting. In 1966 after the great success at Sebring
with the team trophy (which I still have) there was serious talk about me
setting up a deal at each of the import points of the cars to start a
modified line of TR-4A cars just like the Sebring racers. The engines and
suspension of the cars would be exactly as the racers were and all street
legal.
But, as the planning was being worked on the huge specter of the emission
regulations and the D.O.T. problem coming up so soon put a big damper on
the project in the fear that we'd have cars left over that would not meet
the new regulations and thus the plan, it ended up on the cutting room
floor. Warranty issues were also a sticking point that had not been
resolved but not discounted either. The success of the Shelby Mustang and
Cobra car programs had been the spark to start this talk. It was a petty
exciting time even though it never happened.
*Never be beaten by equipment.*
On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 11:39 AM, <rdavis4@cfl.rr.com> wrote:
> I had passed the Ebay info yesterday to Charles Runyan at the Roadster
> Factory.He has two of the cars and I think he may have missing one set.
> Maybe he bought them.
>
> Bob
>
> ---- robertten1@aol.com wrote:
> > Curious,
> >
> >
> > Did someone on this list purchase them or did some Triumph old timer
> guru grab them?
> >
> >
> > Bob T
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Michael Porter <mdporter@dfn.com>
> > To: billdentin <billdentin@aol.com>; fot <fot@autox.team.net>
> > Sent: Wed, Mar 16, 2016 7:39 pm
> > Subject: Re: [Fot] Now that's something I've never seen before. Sabrina
> motor carbs for a TR
> >
> >
> >
> > On 3/16/2016 1:10 PM, billdentin@aol.com wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Agreed! If nothing else, it would be nice to have just for its
> rare, historical significance. But down through the years I have
> always wondered why the SABRINA engine never made it into their
> production cars. They sure seemed to do their job on the race
> track, but there must have been issues why they never went into
> their normal production cars.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I wonder if Kas or Mike Cook has any take on that.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I imagine they do, but, my first guess would be the overall
> cost. At precisely the time that the American market was expecting
> lots of changes year to year, Triumph was making just a few cosmetic
> changes to control expenses and to address manufacturing problems.
> It made no sense to hang onto an engine the basic design of which
> dated back to the `30s--which Triumph did==except for reasons
> having to do with money.
> >
> > Tooling costs, especially for low-volume producers, are
> horribly expensive. With talented people and enough time, it's
> possible to make a few units in-house without production tooling and
> come up with something that works reasonably well (this might be
> why the engines had, IIRC, some persistent oil leaks during
> racing), but translating that design to production is quite another
> matter. New castings means new forms, and any changes in the
> design means changes to production equipment, too--most
> manufacturers at the time had specially-made gang drills to drill
> out the bosses for head bolts in the block and the head, etc. (by
> and large, no CNC machining centers then, especially for small
> producers), and all those had to be redone or adjusted to new
> tasks. And all this would have come at the precise time that
> Triumph was just absorbing new tooling costs for the Spitfire and
> the T
> R4. And in that period, early `60s, market conditions were already
> changing--the trend toward muscle cars in the U.S. certainly had an
> impact on the sports car market--and emission controls were coming
> and the company was already inching toward receivership (wasn't the
> first part of S-T turned over to British Leyland in 1968?).
> >
> > In a way, it was a perfect storm of adverse conditions. I'm
> sure that S-T sensed a need to make some radical changes, but
> they only had the money to make do.
> >
> >
> > Cheers.
> >
> > --
> >
> >
> > Michael Porter
> > Roswell, NM
> >
> >
> > Never let anyone drive you crazy when you know it's within walking
> distance....
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > fot@autox.team.net
> >
> > http://www.fot-racing.com
> >
> > Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> > Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> > Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> > Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/robertten1@aol.com
> >
> >
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> fot@autox.team.net
>
> http://www.fot-racing.com
>
> Donate: http://www.team.net/donate.html
> Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
> Forums: http://www.team.net/forums
> Unsubscribe/Manage:
> http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/kaskastner@gmail.com
>
>
>
--001a11422688bf9af3052e455405
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<div dir=3D"ltr"><br clear=3D"all"><div><div class=3D"gmail_signature"><p><=
strong><font color=3D"#000099">Never be beaten by equipment.</font></strong=
></p></div></div>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote"><br><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>This is all very inter=
esting. In 1966 after the great success at Sebring with the team trophy (wh=
ich I still have) there was serious talk about me setting up a deal at each=
of the import points of the cars to start a modified line of TR-4A cars ju=
st like the Sebring racers. The engines and suspension of the cars would be=
exactly as the racers were and all street legal.</div><div><br></div><div>=
=C2=A0But, as the planning was being worked=C2=A0on the=C2=A0huge specter o=
f the emission regulations and the D.O.T. problem coming up so soon put a b=
ig damper on the project in the fear that we'd have cars left over that=
would not meet the new regulations and thus the plan,=C2=A0it ended up on =
the cutting room floor. Warranty issues were also a sticking point that had=
not been resolved but not discounted either. The success of the Shelby Mus=
tang and Cobra car=C2=A0programs=C2=A0had been=C2=A0the spark to start this=
talk. It was a petty exciting time even=C2=A0though it never happened.</di=
v></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br clear=3D"all"><div><div><p><strong><=
font color=3D"#000099">Never be beaten by equipment.</font></strong></p></d=
iv></div><div><div class=3D"h5">
<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Mar 17, 2016 at 11:39 AM, <span dir=
=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:rdavis4@cfl.rr.com"; target=3D"_blank">rdavis=
4@cfl.rr.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" sty=
le=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,2=
04,204);border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid">I had passed the Eba=
y info yesterday to Charles Runyan at the Roadster Factory.He has two of th=
e cars and I think he may have missing one set. Maybe he bought them.<br>
<br>
Bob<br>
<br>
---- <a href=3D"mailto:robertten1@aol.com"; target=3D"_blank">robertten1@aol=
.com</a> wrote:<br>
> Curious,<br>
><br>
><br>
> Did someone on this list purchase them or did some Triumph old timer g=
uru grab them?<br>
><br>
><br>
> Bob T<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> -----Original Message-----<br>
> From: Michael Porter <<a href=3D"mailto:mdporter@dfn.com"; target=3D=
"_blank">mdporter@dfn.com</a>><br>
> To: billdentin <<a href=3D"mailto:billdentin@aol.com"; target=3D"_bl=
ank">billdentin@aol.com</a>>; fot <<a href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.n=
et" target=3D"_blank">fot@autox.team.net</a>><br>
> Sent: Wed, Mar 16, 2016 7:39 pm<br>
> Subject: Re: [Fot] Now that's something I've never seen before=
. Sabrina motor carbs for a TR<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> On 3/16/2016 1:10 PM,=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a href=3D"mailto:billdentin=
@aol.com" target=3D"_blank">billdentin@aol.com</a> wrote:<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Agreed!=C2=A0 If nothing else, it would be nice to have just for=C2=A0=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 its rare, historical significance.=C2=A0 But d=
own through the years=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 I have always wonde=
red why the SABRINA engine never made it=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
into their production cars.=C2=A0 They sure seemed to do their job=C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 on the race track, but there must have been iss=
ues why they=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 never went into their normal=
production cars.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> I wonder if Kas or Mike Cook has any take on that.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0I imagine they do, but, my first=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 guess would be the overall cost.=C2=A0 At precisely the time tha=
t the=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 American market was expecting lots of chan=
ges year to year,=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Triumph was making just a few =
cosmetic changes to control=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 expenses and to addr=
ess manufacturing problems.=C2=A0 It made no=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 sen=
se to hang onto an engine the basic design of which dated=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 back to the `30s--which Triumph did=3D=3Dexcept for reasons havi=
ng=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 to do with money.<br>
><br>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Tooling costs, especially for low-vol=
ume producers, are horribly=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 expensive.=C2=A0 Wit=
h talented people and enough time, it's possible=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 to make a few units in-house without production tooling and come=C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 up with something that works reasonably well (this=
might be why=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 the engines had, IIRC, some persis=
tent oil leaks during racing),=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 but translating t=
hat design to production is quite another=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 matter=
.=C2=A0 New castings means new forms, and any changes in the=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 design means changes to production equipment, too--most=C2=A0=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 manufacturers at the time had specially-made gang dri=
lls to=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 drill out the bosses for head bolts in th=
e block and the head,=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 etc. (by and large, no CNC=
machining centers then, especially=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 for small pr=
oducers), and all those had to be redone or adjusted=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 to new tasks.=C2=A0 And all this would have come at the precise time=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 that Triumph was just absorbing new tooling cos=
ts for the=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Spitfire and the T<br>
=C2=A0R4. And in that period, early `60s, market=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=
conditions were already changing--the trend toward muscle cars=C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 in the U.S. certainly had an impact on the sports car=C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 market--and emission controls were coming and the =
company was=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 already inching toward receivership =
(wasn't the first part of=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 S-T turned over to=
British Leyland in 1968?).<br>
><br>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0In a way, it was a perfect storm of a=
dverse conditions.=C2=A0 I'm=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 sure that S-T s=
ensed a need to make some radical changes, but=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 t=
hey only had the money to make do.<br>
><br>
><br>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Cheers.<br>
><br>
> --<br>
><br>
><br>
> Michael Porter<br>
> Roswell, NM<br>
><br>
><br>
> Never let anyone drive you crazy when you know it's within walking=
distance....<br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> <a href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank">fot@autox.team=
.net</a><br>
><br>
> <a href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com"; target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"norefer=
rer">http://www.fot-racing.com</a><br>
><br>
> Donate: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/donate.html"; target=3D"_blank" =
rel=3D"noreferrer">http://www.team.net/donate.html</a><br>
> Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/archive"; target=3D"_blank" rel=
=3D"noreferrer">http://www.team.net/archive</a><br>
> Forums: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/forums"; target=3D"_blank" rel=
=3D"noreferrer">http://www.team.net/forums</a><br>
> Unsubscribe/Manage: <a href=3D"http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/f=
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am.net/mailman/options/fot/robertten1@aol.com</a><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net"; target=3D"_blank">fot@autox.team.net<=
/a><br>
<br>
<a href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com"; target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">=
http://www.fot-racing.com</a><br>
<br>
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Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/archive"; target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"n=
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<br>
<br>
</blockquote></div><br></div></div></div>
</div><br></div>
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_______________________________________________
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