Re: [Fot] Now that's something I've never seen before. Sabrina motor carbs for a TR

[michael <mlcooknj@msn.com>]

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Calls for a different kind of studs
=20
Date: Thu=2C 17 Mar 2016 11:33:22 -0400
From: billdentin@aol.com
To: mlcooknj@msn.com=3B mdporter@dfn.com=3B fot@autox.team.net
Subject: Re: [Fot] Now that's something I've never seen before. Sabrina mot=
or carbs for a TR

=0A=
Yeah! I can understand that...but my hang up is I keep thinking about Sabri=
na=2C and Bridget=2C and Gina=2C and Sophia=2C and all those others from th=
at era..=0A=
=0A=

=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
Bill Dentinger=0A=
=0A=

=0A=

=0A=

=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
-----Original Message-----
=0A=
From: michael <mlcooknj@msn.com>
=0A=
To: Michael Porter <mdporter@dfn.com>=3B billdentin <billdentin@aol.com>=3B=
 fot <fot@autox.team.net>
=0A=
Sent: Thu=2C Mar 17=2C 2016 10:27 am
=0A=
Subject: RE: [Fot] Now that's something I've never seen before. Sabrina mot=
or carbs for a TR
=0A=

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=0A=
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=0A=
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=0A=
Just a quick comment - the "Sabrina" engine is a complex sandwich held toge=
ther by very long studs. Lots of castings=2C twin cams to worry about and n=
ot much more horsepower than a well-prepared normal TR engine. It might hav=
e earned the factory points for development and up-to-date thinking but it =
would have been expensive to build and service. They were right to stick wi=
th the existing engine and put the money into styling.
=0A=
=20
=0A=
Mike
=0A=
=20
=0A=
=0A=
To: billdentin@aol.com=3B fot@autox.team.net
=0A=
From: mdporter@dfn.com
=0A=
Date: Wed=2C 16 Mar 2016 16:20:04 -0600
=0A=
Subject: Re: [Fot] Now that's something I've never seen before. Sabrina mot=
or carbs for a TR
=0A=

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  =0A=
    =0A=
  =0A=
  =0A=
    =0A=
On 3/16/2016 1:10 PM=2C=0A=
      billdentin@aol.com wrote:
=0A=
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    =0A=
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    =0A=
        =0A=
Agreed!  If nothing else=2C it would be nice to have just for=0A=
          its rare=2C historical significance.  But down through the years=
=0A=
          I have always wondered why the SABRINA engine never made it=0A=
          into their production cars.  They sure seemed to do their job=0A=
          on the race track=2C but there must have been issues why they=0A=
          never went into their normal production cars.=0A=
=0A=
        =0A=

=0A=
=0A=
        =0A=
=0A=
        =0A=
I wonder if Kas or Mike Cook has any take on that.=0A=
=0A=
        =0A=

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        =0A=
=0A=
     =20
=0A=
=0A=
    =0A=
   =20
=0A=
=0A=
    I imagine they do=2C but=2C my first=0A=
        guess would be the overall cost.  At precisely the time that the=0A=
        American market was expecting lots of changes year to year=2C=0A=
        Triumph was making just a few cosmetic changes to control=0A=
        expenses and to address manufacturing problems.  It made no=0A=
        sense to hang onto an engine the basic design of which dated=0A=
        back to the `30s--which Triumph did=3D=3Dexcept for reasons having=
=0A=
        to do with money. =20
=0A=
=0A=
       =20
=0A=
=0A=
        Tooling costs=2C especially for low-volume producers=2C are horribl=
y=0A=
        expensive.  With talented people and enough time=2C it's possible=
=0A=
        to make a few units in-house without production tooling and come=0A=
        up with something that works reasonably well (this might be why=0A=
        the engines had=2C IIRC=2C some persistent oil leaks during racing)=
=2C=0A=
        but translating that design to production is quite another=0A=
        matter.  New castings means new forms=2C and any changes in the=0A=
        design means changes to production equipment=2C too--most=0A=
        manufacturers at the time had specially-made gang drills to=0A=
        drill out the bosses for head bolts in the block and the head=2C=0A=
        etc. (by and large=2C no CNC machining centers then=2C especially=
=0A=
        for small producers)=2C and all those had to be redone or adjusted=
=0A=
        to new tasks.  And all this would have come at the precise time=0A=
        that Triumph was just absorbing new tooling costs for the=0A=
        Spitfire and the TR4. And in that period=2C early `60s=2C market=0A=
        conditions were already changing--the trend toward muscle cars=0A=
        in the U.S. certainly had an impact on the sports car=0A=
        market--and emission controls were coming and the company was=0A=
        already inching toward receivership (wasn't the first part of=0A=
        S-T turned over to British Leyland in 1968?). =20
=0A=
=0A=
       =20
=0A=
=0A=
        In a way=2C it was a perfect storm of adverse conditions.  I'm=0A=
        sure that S-T sensed a need to make some radical changes=2C but=0A=
        they only had the money to make do.
=0A=
=0A=
       =20
=0A=
=0A=
       =20
=0A=
=0A=
        Cheers. =20
=0A=
=0A=
      =0A=
    -- =0A=
=0A=
=0A=
Michael Porter=0A=
Roswell=2C NM=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
Never let anyone drive you crazy when you know it's within walking distance=
....=0A=
  =0A=
=0A=

=0A=
_______________________________________________=0A=
fot@autox.team.net=0A=
=0A=
http://www.fot-racing.com=0A=
=0A=
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive=0A=
com=0A=
                                          =0A=
=0A=
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=0A=
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=0A=
                                          =

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<body class=3D'hmmessage'><div dir=3D'ltr'>Calls for a different kind of st=
uds<br>&nbsp=3B<BR><div><hr id=3D"stopSpelling">Date: Thu=2C 17 Mar 2016 11=
:33:22 -0400<br>From: billdentin@aol.com<br>To: mlcooknj@msn.com=3B mdporte=
r@dfn.com=3B fot@autox.team.net<br>Subject: Re: [Fot] Now that's something =
I've never seen before. Sabrina motor carbs for a TR<br><br><font color=3D"=
black" face=3D"arial" size=3D"2">=0A=
<div>Yeah! I can understand that...but my hang up is I keep thinking about =
Sabrina=2C and Bridget=2C and Gina=2C and Sophia=2C and all those others fr=
om that era..</div>=0A=
=0A=
<div><br>=0A=
</div>=0A=
=0A=
<div>Bill Dentinger</div>=0A=
=0A=
<div><br>=0A=
<br>=0A=
<br>=0A=
</div>=0A=
=0A=
<div style=3D"color: black=3B font-family: arial=2Chelvetica=3B font-size: =
10pt=3B">-----Original Message-----<br>=0A=
From: michael &lt=3Bmlcooknj@msn.com&gt=3B<br>=0A=
To: Michael Porter &lt=3Bmdporter@dfn.com&gt=3B=3B billdentin &lt=3Bbillden=
tin@aol.com&gt=3B=3B fot &lt=3Bfot@autox.team.net&gt=3B<br>=0A=
Sent: Thu=2C Mar 17=2C 2016 10:27 am<br>=0A=
Subject: RE: [Fot] Now that's something I've never seen before. Sabrina mot=
or carbs for a TR<br>=0A=
<br>=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
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<div class=3D"ecxaolReplacedBody">=0A=
<div dir=3D"ltr">Just a quick comment - the "Sabrina" engine is a complex s=
andwich held together by very long studs.&nbsp=3BLots of castings=2C twin c=
ams to worry about and not much more horsepower than a well-prepared normal=
 TR engine. It might have earned the factory points for development and up-=
to-date thinking but it would have been&nbsp=3Bexpensive to build and servi=
ce. They were right to stick with the existing engine and put the money int=
o styling.<br>=0A=
&nbsp=3B<br>=0A=
Mike<br>=0A=
&nbsp=3B<br>=0A=
=0A=
<div><hr id=3D"ecxstopSpelling">To: <a href=3D"mailto:billdentin@aol.com";>b=
illdentin@aol.com</a>=3B <a href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net";>fot@autox.te=
am.net</a><br>=0A=
From: <a href=3D"mailto:mdporter@dfn.com";>mdporter@dfn.com</a><br>=0A=
Date: Wed=2C 16 Mar 2016 16:20:04 -0600<br>=0A=
Subject: Re: [Fot] Now that's something I've never seen before. Sabrina mot=
or carbs for a TR<br>=0A=
<br>=0A=
=0A=
  =0A=
    =0A=
  =0A=
  =0A=
    =0A=
<div class=3D"ecxmoz-cite-prefix">On 3/16/2016 1:10 PM=2C=0A=
      <a class=3D"ecxmoz-txt-link-abbreviated" href=3D"mailto:billdentin@ao=
l.com" target=3D"_blank">billdentin@aol.com</a> wrote:<br>=0A=
=0A=
    </div>=0A=
=0A=
    <blockquote cite=3D"about:blank"><font color=3D"black" face=3D"arial" s=
ize=3D"2">=0A=
        =0A=
<div>Agreed!&nbsp=3B If nothing else=2C it would be nice to have just for=
=0A=
          its rare=2C historical significance.&nbsp=3B But down through the=
 years=0A=
          I have always wondered why the SABRINA engine never made it=0A=
          into their production cars.&nbsp=3B They sure seemed to do their =
job=0A=
          on the race track=2C but there must have been issues why they=0A=
          never went into their normal production cars.</div>=0A=
=0A=
        =0A=
<div><br>=0A=
=0A=
        </div>=0A=
=0A=
        =0A=
<div>I wonder if Kas or Mike Cook has any take on that.</div>=0A=
=0A=
        =0A=
<div><br>=0A=
=0A=
        </div>=0A=
=0A=
      </font><br>=0A=
=0A=
    </blockquote>=0A=
    <br>=0A=
=0A=
    <font size=3D"2"><font face=3D"arial">I imagine they do=2C but=2C my fi=
rst=0A=
        guess would be the overall cost.&nbsp=3B At precisely the time that=
 the=0A=
        American market was expecting lots of changes year to year=2C=0A=
        Triumph was making just a few cosmetic changes to control=0A=
        expenses and to address manufacturing problems.&nbsp=3B It made no=
=0A=
        sense to hang onto an engine the basic design of which dated=0A=
        back to the `30s--which Triumph did=3D=3Dexcept for reasons having=
=0A=
        to do with money.&nbsp=3B <br>=0A=
=0A=
        <br>=0A=
=0A=
        Tooling costs=2C especially for low-volume producers=2C are horribl=
y=0A=
        expensive.&nbsp=3B With talented people and enough time=2C it's pos=
sible=0A=
        to make a few units in-house without production tooling and come=0A=
        up with something that works reasonably well (this might be why=0A=
        the engines had=2C IIRC=2C some persistent oil leaks during racing)=
=2C=0A=
        but translating that design to production is quite another=0A=
        matter.&nbsp=3B New castings means new forms=2C and any changes in =
the=0A=
        design means changes to production equipment=2C too--most=0A=
        manufacturers at the time had specially-made gang drills to=0A=
        drill out the bosses for head bolts in the block and the head=2C=0A=
        etc. (by and large=2C no CNC machining centers then=2C especially=
=0A=
        for small producers)=2C and all those had to be redone or adjusted=
=0A=
        to new tasks.&nbsp=3B And all this would have come at the precise t=
ime=0A=
        that Triumph was just absorbing new tooling costs for the=0A=
        Spitfire and the TR4. And in that period=2C early `60s=2C market=0A=
        conditions were already changing--the trend toward muscle cars=0A=
        in the U.S. certainly had an impact on the sports car=0A=
        market--and emission controls were coming and the company was=0A=
        already inching toward receivership (wasn't the first part of=0A=
        S-T turned over to British Leyland in 1968?).&nbsp=3B <br>=0A=
=0A=
        <br>=0A=
=0A=
        In a way=2C it was a perfect storm of adverse conditions.&nbsp=3B I=
'm=0A=
        sure that S-T sensed a need to make some radical changes=2C but=0A=
        they only had the money to make do.<br>=0A=
=0A=
        <br>=0A=
=0A=
        <br>=0A=
=0A=
        Cheers.&nbsp=3B <br>=0A=
=0A=
      </font></font>=0A=
    <pre class=3D"ecxmoz-signature">-- =0A=
=0A=
=0A=
Michael Porter=0A=
Roswell=2C NM=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
Never let anyone drive you crazy when you know it's within walking distance=
....</pre>=0A=
  =0A=
=0A=
<br>=0A=
_______________________________________________=0A=
<a href=3D"mailto:fot@autox.team.net";>fot@autox.team.net</a>=0A=
=0A=
<a href=3D"http://www.fot-racing.com"; target=3D"_blank">http://www.fot-raci=
ng.com</a>=0A=
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//www.team.net/donate.html</a>=0A=
Archive: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/archive"; target=3D"_blank">http://w=
ww.team.net/archive</a>=0A=
Forums: <a href=3D"http://www.team.net/forums"; target=3D"_blank">http://www=
.team.net/forums</a>=0A=
cooknj%40msn.com" target=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/f=
ot/mlcooknj@msn.com</a></div>=0A=
                                          </div>=0A=
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</div>=0A=
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</div>=0A=
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</div>=0A=
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