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I've only had one fail in four years. A loose battery cable that had fallen=
on the exhaust and shorted may have been part of the cause=20
but I can't verify it. I see a lot of race cars with back up ignitions but =
I'm not so sure it's because of an abnormal failure rate as=20
the cost of a DNF is far higher than just building in redundant parts..like=
a back up fuel pump.=20
jim=20
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alexandre Camoletti" <ac@camoletti.ch>=20
To: "Jim Gray" <toodamnfunky@comcast.net>, "fot" <fot@autox.team.net>=20
Sent: Tuesday, April 7, 2015 10:39:49 AM=20
Subject: RE: [Fot] MSD box=20
Dear Listers, interesting to read that about the MSD boxes.=20
I heard in the past MSD has a very high failure rate (up to 50%).=20
So those troubles do confirm the reliability issues of MSD=20
So I never bought or installed one but went for the Crane boxes, which are =
just great and run like a clock all the time.=20
Cheers!=20
AlexCamoletti=20
De=C2=A0: Fot [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] De la part de Jim Gray vi=
a Fot=20
Envoy=C3=A9=C2=A0: mardi 7 avril 2015 15:08=20
=C3=80=C2=A0: fot@autox.team.net=20
Objet=C2=A0: Re: [Fot] MSD box=20
=C2=A0=20
We had the exact same problem on one of our spits without MSD in Colorado. =
=E2=80=9C When I pull either #1 or #4 plug wire she runs fine, dips down a =
bit in RPM, but if I pull #2 or #3 she almost dies=E2=80=9D=20
We didn=E2=80=99t move the timing light sensor wire around though.=20
We have another spitfire that did one of the most bizarre things I=E2=80=99=
ve ever seen. We were trying to sort out another ignition miss problem and =
decided it wasn=E2=80=99t going to get fixed at that moment.=20
Dan, the owner decided to put it back in his pit, put the hood down and fir=
ed it up. It seemed to run a bit worse than when we started so the hood cam=
e back up while it was running.=20
The distributor cap didn=E2=80=99t get put back on and it was running! The =
cap wasn=E2=80=99t even close to the distributor, it was almost a foot away=
and you could see the arc dancing all over the inside of the cap. If someo=
ne had told me that story and I hadn=E2=80=99t seen it for myself I would h=
ave called BS.=20
All I can say is that was one hot coil, how it fired in any kind of order t=
hat would allow it to run is still beyond my understanding.=20
As far as why a car will still seem to run unaffected by pulling #=E2=80=99=
s 1 or 4 is still a puzzle to me.=20
Some people actually have success with an adjustable timing light on and MS=
D equipped car ( if that=E2=80=99s what your using ) I never did. MSD say=
=E2=80=99s no. I had to go back to=20
a fixed timing light because the timing was all over the place, hence the d=
ual spark up to 3K rpm.=20
Even with the fixed timing light I had trouble timing the car at the Kastne=
r Cup at Road America. The MSD unit completely failed the next weekend out.=
Now I keep a spare in the box.=20
The point I=E2=80=99m getting at is in this case it might not be the MSD bo=
x since we had the same problem with a non-MSD car.=20
jim g=20
=C2=A0=20
=C2=A0=20
From: Fot [mailto:fot-bounces@autox.team.net] On Behalf Of Steve Smith via =
Fot=20
Sent: Monday, April 06, 2015 7:07 PM=20
To: don@dcphotos.com; FOT@autox.team.net=20
Subject: Re: [Fot] MSD box=20
=C2=A0=20
I've seen that exact issue on a very fast TR4. =C2=A0Drove us nuts until we=
tried a new box. =C2=A0They will repair it very cheaply as I recall.=20
=C2=A0=20
Remember how NASCAR's always have TWO on board??=20
=C2=A0=20
=C2=A0=20
-----Original Message-----=20
From: don--- via Fot <fot@autox.team.net>=20
To: fot <fot@autox.team.net>=20
Sent: Mon, Apr 6, 2015 4:55 pm=20
Subject: [Fot] MSD box=20
This Spitfire that was =E2=80=9Cpawned=E2=80=9D off on me has a MSD Digital=
6A box in it.=20
=C2=A0=20
When I pull either #1 or #4 plug wire she runs fine, dips down a bit in RPM=
, but if I pull #2 or #3 she almost dies.=20
=C2=A0=20
I put my timing gun on #1 wire, she fires at 15 =C2=B0 BTDC and same if I p=
ut the timing gun sensor=20
on the #4 wire.=20
=C2=A0=20
When I put the sensor on either #2 or #3 wire, it shows it firing all over =
the place, them seem to settle down to 15=C2=B0btdc=20
and then goes crazy again, settles down.=C2=A0=20
=C2=A0=20
Not sure if this is the MSD box or not but I thought I might get some answe=
rs here.=20
=C2=A0=20
I did find that the rotor cap was dragging on the Pertronix Ignitor module =
inside the distributor. I swapped out rotor caps but still no luck.=20
=C2=A0=20
Don=20
=C2=A0=20
DON COUCH PHOTOGRAPHY=20
(512)-680-3540=20
=C2=A0=20
_______________________________________________=20
fot@autox.team.net=20
=C2=A0=20
http://www.fot-racing.com=20
=C2=A0=20
Donate:=20
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive=20
Forums:=20
http://www.team.net/forums=20
http://autox.team.net/mailman/options/fot/gt6steve@aol.com=20
=C2=A0=20
=C2=A0=20
------=_Part_20082765_895032737.1428430898866
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<html><body><div style=3D"font-family: Arial; font-size: 12pt; color: #0000=
00"><DIV>I've only had one fail in four years. A loose battery cable that h=
ad fallen on the exhaust and shorted may have been part of the cause<BR>but=
I can't verify it. I see a lot of race cars with back up ignitions but I'm=
not so sure it's because of an abnormal failure rate as</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; TEXT-DECORATION: none; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetic=
a,Arial,sans-serif; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: #000; FONT-STYLE: normal">
<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; COLOR: #000000">
<DIV>the cost of a DNF is far higher than just building in redundant parts.=
.like a back up fuel pump.</DIV>
<DIV>jim</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<HR id=3Dzwchr>
<DIV style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; TEXT-DECORATION: none; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetic=
a,Arial,sans-serif; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: #000; FONT-STYLE: normal"><=
B>From: </B>"Alexandre Camoletti" <ac@camoletti.ch><BR><B>To: </B>"Ji=
m Gray" <toodamnfunky@comcast.net>, "fot" <fot@autox.team.net><=
BR><B>Sent: </B>Tuesday, April 7, 2015 10:39:49 AM<BR><B>Subject: </B>RE: [=
Fot] MSD box<BR>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
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<DIV class=3DWordSection1>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US style=3D'FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMI=
LY: "Calibri","sans-serif"; COLOR: #1f497d'>Dear Listers, interesting to re=
ad that about the MSD boxes. </SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US style=3D'FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMI=
LY: "Calibri","sans-serif"; COLOR: #1f497d'>I heard in the past MSD has a v=
ery high failure rate (up to 50%). </SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US style=3D'FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMI=
LY: "Calibri","sans-serif"; COLOR: #1f497d'>So those troubles do confirm th=
e reliability issues of MSD</SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US style=3D'FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMI=
LY: "Calibri","sans-serif"; COLOR: #1f497d'>So I never bought or installed =
one but went for the Crane boxes, which are just great and run like a clock=
all the time.</SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US style=3D'FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMI=
LY: "Calibri","sans-serif"; COLOR: #1f497d'>Cheers!</SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US style=3D'FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMI=
LY: "Calibri","sans-serif"; COLOR: #1f497d'>AlexCamoletti</SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<DIV style=3D"BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; BOR=
DER-BOTTOM: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; PADDING-LEF=
T: 0cm; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0cm">
<P class=3DMsoNormal><B><SPAN lang=3DFR style=3D'FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMI=
LY: "Tahoma","sans-serif"'>De :</SPAN></B><SPAN lang=3DFR style=3D'FON=
T-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Fot [mailto:fot-bounces@=
autox.team.net] <B>De la part de</B> Jim Gray via Fot<BR><B>Envoy=C3=A9&nbs=
p;:</B> mardi 7 avril 2015 15:08<BR><B>=C3=80 :</B> fot@autox.team.net=
<BR><B>Objet :</B> Re: [Fot] MSD box</SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal> </P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US style=3D'FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMI=
LY: "Arial","sans-serif"; COLOR: navy'>We had the exact same problem on one=
of our spits without MSD in Colorado. =E2=80=9C</SPAN><SPAN lang=3DEN-US s=
tyle=3D'FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Arial","sans-serif"; COLOR: black'>W=
hen I pull either #1 or #4 plug wire she runs fine, dips down a bit in RPM,=
but if I pull #2 or #3 she almost dies=E2=80=9D </SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US style=3D'FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMI=
LY: "Arial","sans-serif"; COLOR: navy'>We didn=E2=80=99t move the timing li=
ght sensor wire around though.</SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US style=3D'FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMI=
LY: "Arial","sans-serif"; COLOR: navy'>We have another spitfire that did on=
e of the most bizarre things I=E2=80=99ve ever seen. We were trying to sort=
out another ignition miss problem and decided it wasn=E2=80=99t going to g=
et fixed at that moment.</SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US style=3D'FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMI=
LY: "Arial","sans-serif"; COLOR: navy'>Dan, the owner decided to put it bac=
k in his pit, put the hood down and fired it up. It seemed to run a bit wor=
se than when we started so the hood came back up while it was running.</SPA=
N></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US style=3D'FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMI=
LY: "Arial","sans-serif"; COLOR: navy'>The distributor cap didn=E2=80=99t g=
et put back on and it was running! The cap wasn=E2=80=99t even close to the=
distributor, it was almost a foot away and you could see the arc dancing a=
ll over the inside of the cap. If someone had told me that story and I hadn=
=E2=80=99t seen it for myself I would have called BS.</SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US style=3D'FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMI=
LY: "Arial","sans-serif"; COLOR: navy'>All I can say is that was one hot co=
il, how it fired in any kind of order that would allow it to run is still b=
eyond my understanding.</SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US style=3D'FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMI=
LY: "Arial","sans-serif"; COLOR: navy'>As far as why a car will still seem =
to run unaffected by pulling #=E2=80=99s 1 or 4 is still a puzzle to me.</S=
PAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US style=3D'FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMI=
LY: "Arial","sans-serif"; COLOR: navy'>Some people actually have success wi=
th an adjustable timing light on and MSD equipped car ( if that=E2=80=99s w=
hat your using ) I never did. MSD say=E2=80=99s no. I had to go back to </S=
PAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US style=3D'FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMI=
LY: "Arial","sans-serif"; COLOR: navy'>a fixed timing light because the tim=
ing was all over the place, hence the dual spark up to 3K rpm.</SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US style=3D'FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMI=
LY: "Arial","sans-serif"; COLOR: navy'>Even with the fixed timing light I h=
ad trouble timing the car at the Kastner Cup at Road America. The MSD unit =
completely failed the next weekend out. Now I keep a spare in the box.</SPA=
N></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US style=3D'FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMI=
LY: "Arial","sans-serif"; COLOR: navy'>The point I=E2=80=99m getting at is =
in this case it might not be the MSD box since we had the same problem with=
a non-MSD car.</SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US style=3D'FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMI=
LY: "Arial","sans-serif"; COLOR: navy'>jim g</SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US style=3D'FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMI=
LY: "Arial","sans-serif"; COLOR: navy'> </SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US style=3D'FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMI=
LY: "Arial","sans-serif"; COLOR: navy'> </SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<DIV class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=3Dcenter><SPAN la=
ng=3DEN-US>
<HR align=3Dcenter SIZE=3D2 width=3D"100%">
</SPAN></DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><B><SPAN lang=3DEN-US style=3D'FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-F=
AMILY: "Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</SPAN></B><SPAN lang=3DEN-US style=3D'F=
ONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Fot [mailto:fot-bounce=
s@autox.team.net] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Steve Smith via Fot<BR><B>Sent:</B> M=
onday, April 06, 2015 7:07 PM<BR><B>To:</B> don@dcphotos.com; FOT@autox.tea=
m.net<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Fot] MSD box</SPAN><SPAN lang=3DEN-US></SPAN>=
</P></DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US> </SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US style=3D'FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMI=
LY: "Arial","sans-serif"; COLOR: black'>I've seen that exact issue on a ver=
y fast TR4. Drove us nuts until we tried a new box. They will r=
epair it very cheaply as I recall. </SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US style=3D'FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMI=
LY: "Arial","sans-serif"; COLOR: black'> </SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US style=3D'FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMI=
LY: "Arial","sans-serif"; COLOR: black'>Remember how NASCAR's always have T=
WO on board??</SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt; BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-RI=
GHT: medium none; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0cm; PADDING-=
TOP: 0cm; PADDING-LEFT: 2pt; BORDER-LEFT: blue 1.5pt solid; MARGIN-TOP: 5pt=
; PADDING-RIGHT: 0cm">
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US style=3D'FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMI=
LY: "Arial","sans-serif"; COLOR: black'> </SPAN></P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE=
></DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><SPAN lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Arial","sans-serif"; COLOR: black'> =
;</SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><SPAN lang=3DEN-US style=
=3D'FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Arial","sans-serif"; COLOR: black'>-----=
Original Message-----<BR>From: don--- via Fot <fot@autox.team.net><BR=
>To: fot <fot@autox.team.net><BR>Sent: Mon, Apr 6, 2015 4:55 pm<BR>Su=
bject: [Fot] MSD box</SPAN></P>
<DIV id=3DAOLMsgPart_1.2_23cfa6ad-ff53-4d62-a2a3-4c67065df8b1>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US style=3D'FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMI=
LY: "Arial","sans-serif"; COLOR: black'>This Spitfire that was =E2=80=9Cpaw=
ned=E2=80=9D off on me has a MSD Digital 6A box in it. </SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US style=3D'FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMI=
LY: "Arial","sans-serif"; COLOR: black'> </SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US style=3D'FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMI=
LY: "Arial","sans-serif"; COLOR: black'>When I pull either #1 or #4 plug wi=
re she runs fine, dips down a bit in RPM, but if I pull #2 or #3 she almost=
dies. </SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US style=3D'FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMI=
LY: "Arial","sans-serif"; COLOR: black'> </SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US style=3D'FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMI=
LY: "Arial","sans-serif"; COLOR: black'>I put my timing gun on #1 wire, she=
fires at 15 </SPAN><SPAN lang=3DEN-US style=3D'FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMIL=
Y: "Helvetica","sans-serif"; BACKGROUND: white; COLOR: #666666'>=C2=B0</SPA=
N><SPAN lang=3DEN-US style=3D'FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Arial","sans-s=
erif"; COLOR: black'>BTDC and same if I put the timing gun sensor </SPAN></=
P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US style=3D'FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMI=
LY: "Arial","sans-serif"; COLOR: black'>on the #4 wire. </SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US style=3D'FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMI=
LY: "Arial","sans-serif"; COLOR: black'> </SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US style=3D'FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMI=
LY: "Arial","sans-serif"; COLOR: black'>When I put the sensor on either #2 =
or #3 wire, it shows it firing all over the place, them seem to settle down=
to 15=C2=B0btdc </SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US style=3D'FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMI=
LY: "Arial","sans-serif"; COLOR: black'>and then goes crazy again, settles =
down. </SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US style=3D'FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMI=
LY: "Arial","sans-serif"; COLOR: black'> </SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US style=3D'FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMI=
LY: "Arial","sans-serif"; COLOR: black'>Not sure if this is the MSD box or =
not but I thought I might get some answers here. </SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US style=3D'FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMI=
LY: "Arial","sans-serif"; COLOR: black'> </SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US style=3D'FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMI=
LY: "Arial","sans-serif"; COLOR: black'>I did find that the rotor cap was d=
ragging on the Pertronix Ignitor module inside the distributor. I swapped o=
ut rotor caps but still no luck. </SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN lang=3DEN-US style=3D'FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMI=
LY: "Arial","sans-serif"; COLOR: black'> </SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
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