Marc Tyler wrote:
>
> Marc Sayer wrote
>
> >Yes I do. And yes so do my advertisers. Copyrights do not expire and
> >therefore yes Nissan does still have the copyright to that image. And I
> >apologized in my very first post if I was wrong about your not having
> >permission.
>
> Actually, copyrights do expire after a few decades if not renewed. Are
> we sure nissan and not the photographer would be the copyright holder?
Hey Marc (good name BTW:-) got your other posts and you are right it's a
legal issue that is very misunderstood for sure. And many seemed to have
missed my point entirely. I was not not talking about what was legal or
illegal but what was right or wrong. Not about legality but about
personal responsibility. Sadly, the two have very little to do with one
another nowadays.
My understanding and the legal advice I got was that as soon as
something is created there is an implied copyright, that copyrights do
not generally expire on published materials (remember the person copied
the brochure itself and not the photograph), and no matter what, you
should assume someone owns the rights and get permission. Given how
rabid Nissan is about their rights, (they have repeatedly tried to force
everyone using the name Datsun in their business - i.e. Bill's Datsun
Repair - to stop using the name, and they were very hard nosed about us
using the name Datsun and Z Car in our title) I would bet that they
probably do still own the rights to the image in question. Again even if
they don't, then the photog might and even if no one does, this fact
ought to be established before products are made and marketed with the
image. Even if its just a guy doing a few items, the quantity of the
theft does not mean anything as far as the issue of personal
responsibility goes. It is not just big business that has to act
responsibly, we all do. And to say, well let em sue me if they don't
like it, is simply ducking responsibility. Actually it worse than that,
it's shifting responsibility to the victim. If we want something we
should ask for it! I am sure most of our mothers taught us that, even if
it was a lesson we'd like to ignore now and then. For example I applaud
Les for having gotten Pete's permission to reproduce the BRE products.
Legally he certainly didn't have to. I doubt that there is any reason
why folks couldn't simply have copied the BRE designs at this point
without even so much as a howdydo to Pete. In fact many have done just
that. But the fact is Pete worked hard to develop those designs and even
if it is not financially feasible for him to protect his rights any
longer, he still deserves at least a recognition of his efforts. A
simple please and thank you would be the appropriate thing, along with
an accreditation.
No I am not sure that it is Nissan who owns the copyrights, but you
would have to go through them to find out. And whoever holds copyright
on that image certainly isn't part of the mousepad program :-)
Its not that I think this person is the devil incarnate or anything or
that I want to pick on them in particular (I don't even know who they
are). But I am seeing more and more an attitude of "I have a right to
use whatever I want and I am only wrong about that if someone takes me
to court over it." We have enough legal cases as it is and certainly
don't need more. Besides I was raised to believe that a thing is right
or wrong on its merit not on whether you can get away with it. I'd like
to see the Datsun & Roadster communities act with some class in this
respect. The guy could probably have called Nissan and gotten permission
to use it for free. Most photogrpahers who own the rights to their own
images will gladly allow you to reproduce them for free or a very small
nominal charge if the image is not a current image. For example I
contacted Mr. Inomoto about purchasing single-use rights to reproduce
his older cutaway drawings of various Datsuns, and he offered to allow
me to use them at no charge. He was pleased to have his work recognised
and appreciated. It just pisses me off when folks use without at least
asking. Its not nice or fair. And our slowly degrading moral perspective
scares me. It used to be "stealing was wrong," then it was "stealing is
illegal," then it was "getting caught at stealing is embarasing," now it
seems to be "being sued successfully for stealing shows you used bad
judgement." In fact in several post on this thread I have seen folks try
to make me and/or Nissan out as the bad guys here, so I fear the next
step will be "pointing out a theft has taken place is wrong."
Whoever owns the rights to that image (and I am betting it is Nissan
since it was a promo item and most shots for those are done on
assignment), a considerable expenditure of time, effort, and money went
into creating it and it is not right for someone else to profit from
that without permission.
As some have pointed out this is not really on topic and this will be my
last post to the list about this.
--
Marc Sayer
Editor/Publisher
Z Car & Classic Datsun Magazine
http://zcarmag.com
Voice 541-726-6001
Fax 541-746-0863/726-6001
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