Mike -
The 2000 was pretty rough when he raced it!
Was the 510 Don Devendorf's car? That would be a keeper.
- Bob
datsunmike wrote:
>
> Bob,
>
> Several years ago I had the opportunity to buy that car from a guy in
> Huntington who raced it after Dave sold it. There were many "interesting"
> things about that car. He cut open the frame and put something (lead?) where
> the chassis rises into the front suspension and something in the rear to put
> some weight in the lowest places of the frame. He also cut holes in the
> areas you can't see to lighten the body such as the door supports and the
> like. Ed Unkle purchased the car after I told him about it and gave him the
> info. Craig Halstead bought it and probably still has it. If I had the room
> and the $$ I might have bought it but . . .
>
> Unfortunately the other reason was that there was no engine or tranny and it
> was pretty rough.
>
> The same guy (Waldorf?) wanted to also sell me his mint race-ready '72 510
> which I shoulda bought.
>
> '66 Mike
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: RWM <RWM@RWMann.com>
> To: Roadster list <datsun-roadsters@autox.team.net>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2000 1:23 PM
> Subject: Re: Injecting foam
>
> > Dave Manzolini, a NYR SCCA C/D-Production 2000 racer in the late 1970's,
> > who masterminded the Commander data acquisition system (allegedly from
> > Rome Air Development Center Air Force surplus parts), used injectable
> > epoxy foam to fill the rear quarters, doors and confined spaces,
> > including under the dash. As I recall, he explained the foam limited
> > body damage in close quarters racing (Dave had a Gilles Villeneuve-like
> > driving style). He was a wily one, and who knows, the foam could have
> > been in part for for torsional rigidity.
> >
> > - Bob Mann
> >
> > Gary McCormick wrote:
> > >
> > > The key phrase here is "injecting foam into the body". I was referring
> to Mike Kerr's
> > > statement regarding injecting foam into the frame (see quoted message
> below). Since my '70
> > > 2000 is a California car, and therefore has a perfect body ;^ ) (not to
> mention having
> > > been garaged it's entire life), I have not had to do any body work on
> the car, so I am not
> > > too familiar with the body spaces where foam could be injected. Part of
> the issue here is
> > > the relative stiffness of the frame and the body. The Roadster's frame
> is a relatively
> > > stiff structure as it stands, and due to the size and shape of the
> cavities would stand to
> > > gain little or no additional structural strength from the foam. The body
> of the car, being
> > > fabricated of much lighter gage material, derives much of its stiffness
> from its shape,
> > > and from being rigidly attached to the much stronger frame.
> > >
> > > Looking at the PDF files of the parts book as a reference to the body
> construction, the
> > > only areas I can determine might be candidates are the spaces in the
> fenders immediately
> > > fore and aft of the door openings.
> > >
> > ... snip
> > >
> > > Gary McCormick
> > > '70 2000 (with gradually increasing amount of clear space around it in
> the garage - woo
> > > hoo!)
> > > San José, CA
> >
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----------------
> > >
> > > datsunmike wrote:
> > >
> > > > Although I didn't actually drive the 300Z they used the foam in/on(?)
> they
> > > > said that it provided a lot of extra structural strength, so much so
> that
> > > > when they tested the Z after injecting the foam into the body "the
> chassis
> > > > now almost feels like it has a roll cage."
> > > >
> > > > While the roadster is not a unit body design I can't see how this
> product
> > > > would not stiffen the body and frame of our cars. Compared to my
> Miata, the
> > > > roadster is fairly loose and has considerable cowl shake. Anything
> that can
> > > > tighten it up for better handling would be greatly appreciated
> especially
> > > > when no fabrication is needed.
> > > >
> > > > '66 Mike
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: Gary McCormick <svgkm@halley.ca.essd.northgrum.com>
> > > > To: Marc Sayer <msayer1@concentric.net>
> > > > Cc: Mike Kerr <mikekerr@innercite.com>; datsunmike
> <datsunmike@nyc.rr.com>;
> > > > Roadster list <datsun-roadsters@autox.team.net>
> > > > Sent: Monday, June 05, 2000 1:00 PM
> > > > Subject: Re:
> > > >
> > > > > I question whether filling the interior of the frame members with
> this
> > > > material will
> > > > > significantly increase stiffness - the Roadster's frame members
> appear to
> > > > be pretty
> > > > > substantial already. A foam filling, even though the material
> itself, when
> > > > set, is quite
> > > > > stiff, is not going to contribute materially to either the
> torsional,
> > > > lateral or
> > > > > longitudinal stiffness of the car. The loads that affect the frame
> members
> > > > are going to
> > > > > subject a foam filling to shear stresses - stresses to which these
> > > > materials are not
> > > > > sufficiently resistant for them to be beneficial. Your best bet is
> to
> > > > treat the frame for
> > > > > external rust resistance to prevent corrosion from weakening it,
> rather
> > > > than attempting to
> > > > > use an ineffective means of attempting to strengthen it.
> > > > >
> > > > > Gary McCormick
> > > > > San José, CA
> > > >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > ------------------
> > > > >
> > > > > Marc Sayer wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Mike Kerr wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > one problem though if it traps moisture it can give you probems
> with
> > > > rusting
> > > > > > > out the body
> > > > > > > there was this house that they used some new type of foam as
> > > > insolation
> > > > > > > that caused all the nails to rust that held it together , it had
> > > > formed some
> > > > > > > sort of acid that did the damage .. Would be a bummer if you
> pumped
> > > > foam
> > > > > > > inot your car only to have it rust away..
> > > > > > > But if this stuff is safe it could be used in the frame of the
> roaster
> > > > to
> > > > > > > stiffen it ...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Mike is absolutely right. Though the stuff is used for just this
> purpose
> > > > > > in new cars and therefore isn't going to produce rust or corrosion
> in
> > > > > > and of itself, if the box members being filled aren't properly
> prepared
> > > > > > first, you are going to have problems. I haven't seen the
> instruction
> > > > > > for these products, and they may give specific dos and don'ts But
> I
> > > > > > would think that all rust should be treated first with an agent
> such as
> > > > > > Rustmort or Ospho, which will convert the rust to a stable iron
> oxide
> > > > > > that is not reactive and will not corrode any further. Then a
> coating of
> > > > > > some sort might be in order, like a paint or something. As I say
> the
> > > > > > specific product may well have instructions as to how to use it in
> an
> > > > > > older car, once it is released for consumer use. Of course as it
> is used
> > > > > > now, during production of a new car, the situation is completely
> > > > > > different.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > Marc Sayer
> > > > > > Editor/Publisher
> > > > > > Z Car & Classic Datsun Magazine
> > > > > > http://zcarmag.com
> > > > > > Voice 541-726-6001
> > > > > > Fax 541-746-0863/726-6001
> > > > >
> >
> > --
> > R.W. Mann & Company, Inc. > Airline Industry Analysis and Consulting
> > Port Washington, NY 11050 > tel 516-944-0900, fax 516-944-7280
> > mailto:info@RWMann.com > URL http://www.RWMann.com/
--
R.W. Mann & Company, Inc. > Airline Industry Analysis and Consulting
Port Washington, NY 11050 > tel 516-944-0900, fax 516-944-7280
mailto:info@RWMann.com > URL http://www.RWMann.com/
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