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Re: A/R bar question...

To: autox@autox.team.net, bpariza@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: A/R bar question...
From: GSMnow@aol.com
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 21:56:41 EDT
In a message dated 4/10/02 9:20:35 AM Central Daylight Time,
 From: Bob Pariza <bpariza@yahoo.com>
 Subject: A/R bar question...
 
<< My real question, for anyone who would like to reply, is:  Is there such a 
thing as too much roll-stiffness, and if so just what does it get you?  I'm 
looking at bigger a-r bars, but there are lots of choices.  Fortunately for 
me, they all seem to come in f/r sets, so I'm anticipating that the fore/aft 
balance was done by someone with a clue (as opposed to me).  I've found some 
aftermarket 'bars that claim to be 40% stiffer than the factory "road race" 
bars and am wondering if perhaps that's a bit much, hence the question.  Will 
"too much" roll stiffness get me more weight transfer to the outside tires 
resulting in an earlier slide as the overworked outside tires give up?  Or, 
will planting them harder (hopefully smooth transfer so that we don't rush 
past the limit, as described above) make them stick better?  Or (final 
option) does everything depend (meaning that the only way to find out is to 
buy them and try them)? >>

Yes, you can certainly have too much sway bar, but how much that is depends 
on many things. On my rear drive Celica with a modest 2% front weight bias, I 
tried a huge set of bars, and on smooth surfaces they were great. Body lean 
was barely 1 degree at about 1G. The springs I was using at the time were on 
the soft side, so it actually work kay on the street. the front bar was 
actually a stock WS6 Trans Am bar. My Celica only has a front axle weight of 
1400 lbs. The front of the T/A is probably more like 2100 lbs. The problem I 
ran into was setting the shocks to work in different conditions. The shocks 
had to be stiff to control the bars, but then they would over power the 
springs. If I softened the shocks to work with the springs, then they 
couldn't control the bars. Basically I ended up with a car with a very high 
limit, but any bump would send it sliding. 

Currently I am back to stock sway bars, but 325 lb/inch front springs, (my 
Eibach pro kits were just 185 lb/in) and the roll rate is only a tick softer 
than the big bar setup. The rear setup also went through a similar change at 
the same time. 130 lb/inch springs and a 1 inch bar down to a 5/8 inch bar 
and 275 lb/in springs. The car is much more controlable when it hits bumps. 
Lean is about 1.5 degrees at 1G. A bit softer in roll than before, and I may 
go up a bit more with spring, but I am trying different alignments first to 
see what works.

If you are on the smoothest surface on earth, then huge roll stiffness will 
work, but just like springs, you need some compliance to make it over bumps 
without loosing traction.

Compared to street driving, you probably can tollerate a bit more bar for 
autocross, so I would guess any "street use" sway bar set will not be 
unuseably stiff. Many street bar sets may also be dialed in for a bit of 
push, for liability sake. You know, there is noone on the street qualified to 
drive a neutral handling car.

Gary M.

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