Randy Chase <randyc2@home.com> wrote:
I'm trying to stay out of this, really, I am - but some of this bleeds back into
"Why STU?", or indeed, "why any class n?"
> Paul Foster wrote:
>> And what job is that? To provide a venue for a select few cars but
>> everybody else is at a huge disadvantage? This is total BS.
[Randy's reply snipped]
Actually, I'm with Randy on this one. I think you'll have to look very hard to
find a class that has a real, honest-to-goodness overdog lurking in it. There
are classes where there are cars that are slightly better, on average, than the
others - but I strongly feel that, again, on average, the differences between
cars are vastly smaller than the differences between drivers.
I think a C4 with the right driver and properly prepared is probably still
competitive in SS. I'd bet Erik S. could win in one.
Part of the problem with recognising "overdogs" is that the best drivers tend to
gravitate to certain cars. Firstly, top drivers like to drive cars that pay
contingency money. Secondly, top drivers like to drive cars they feel offer the
best chance to win. So you tend to see the top drivers in the best cars that pay
money to win - not necessarily the best cars period.
Neon, Miata, RX-7, Type-R... see the pattern?
>> The SCCA
>> should provide fair classes for _all_ cars, particularly for sports cars
>> that would turn up in very large numbers if they had a fair place to
>> play, as has been proven numerous times in the past.
I see where you're coming from, but you've got to be careful. "If you build it,
they will come, and they will stay" is NOT true. You need a core group that
works, passively or actively, to recruit and retain class members.
For a National class, you need that core group in pretty well every Region.
That's not to say that "Vette Stock" does or does not have that core group, but
you cannot just assume that it does - especially when this particular group
already has a marque club servicing them.
I know that Detroit has a very large Corvette club, and this club hosts their
own autocross events. Yet hardly any of them attend SCCA events. Why is that? Is
this typical of other Regions that have active Corvette Clubs in them?
These questions (and many others) have to be answered.
> 1. New people will be uncompetitive regardless of how their car is
> classed. If that means they don't get a trophy and go home and don't
> come back, they have the wrong attitude. I personally do not think this
> mindset is that common. Maybe I hope it's not.
Agreed, agreed, and agreed.
One caveat I'd like to add though, is that it must be reasonably clear that a
given car in a given class has a reasonable chance of becoming competitive given
enough work and practice. I think for most Regions, the C4 in SS passes this
test. On the other hand, your average over-prepared Riceboy in E Mod fails this
test miserably.
> 2. Many novices show up with cars that have something that knocks them
> into a mod or prepared class anyways. It may make more sense to make an
> exemption for them, then to change the national classing structure.
Depending on the numbers, yes. After a certain point though, the exemptions
qualify for their own National class. If the market is large enough, and if
growth is projected to continue, then by all means, make a National class.
STU passes this test, by virtue of being marque-agnostic, and by virtue of the
market segment growing. "Vette Stock" is a little more dubious - there are no
more C4s being produced, so the number of possible participants is shrinking.
> 3. Creating more classes may tend to dilute the classes and we will have
> more undersubscribed classes.
This argument doesn't hold water. If class "X" is created, and it steals cars
from classes A, B, and C, then classes A, B, and C were failing to meet some
need of the former competitors that X fulfills. X is therefore a "better" class,
as more people choose to participate in it. If it kills class "A" in the
process, then that's evolution at work.
> 4. There will always be cars or models or years that are not going to be
> the top car. No matter what. I suggest that 99% of the drivers
> understand this and enjoy the sport in the framework.
Agreed, and agreed - to a point. The trick is to class cars such that the
differences between cars are smaller than the typical differences between
drivers. As long as a given car has a reasonable chance to win with the proper
preparation level and decent driving, it is correctly classed.
Nobody should have to be the class slug - at least, not for more than one year.
;) (Goodbye, P2!)
Incidently, identifying slugs is just as difficult as identifying overdogs. One
might be tempted, based on this year's ESP results, to label the '99 Mustang
Cobra IRS car a slug - until you find out that the only car so entered wasn't
prepared to anything near the limit of the rules. (It was basically an F Stock
car with big tires) Thus, this car has a reasonable chance to become competitive
in the future.
> 5. The emphasis on having to win locally, IMHO, means that someone has
> forgotten to enjoy the sport. It means just as much to me, to do the
> best I can in whatever car I show up in. I know if I drove it well, and
> that is enough.
Ahh, but you're not everybody Randy. ;)
We're back to that "reasonable chance to win" thing again. As long as that
exists, then the car is correctly classed. An STU car in E Mod does not have a
reasonable chance to win, so it deserves a class where that chance exists. If no
such class exists, then one must be created - assuming the size of the source
pool is large enough, as I think STU has shown itself to be.
I don't think that it's been established yet that the C4 does not have a
reasonable chance to win in SS - and if it doesn't, perhaps there's another,
existing class where it would (without becoming an overdog in the process). If
there isn't such a class, then there's the question of why there is so little
crossover between the Corvette Club and the SCCA that has to be answered.
> I don't expect SCCA to change NATIONAL classes for my local issues.
No reasonable person does. However, local issues sometimes act as indicators for
national issues. It is reasonable to investigate a local issue on a national
scope, and see if it truly is a nationwide problem.
It falls upon anybody who wishes to change or create a National class to do a
LOT of research and homework. You must have facts to back up your proposed
changes, not just opinions. Similarily, it falls upon those who would oppose
such changes to support their opposition with facts as well.
It seems clear to me that the "Vette Stock" proponents have some work to do. The
matter bears invistigation - so someone must investigate it, and report their
findings for peer review.
DG
|