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Re: ST tire options

To: autox@autox.team.net
Subject: Re: ST tire options
From: "Mike and Lara King" <mapco@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 09:39:05 -0400
 The top car in the class did not have shaved Pilots. They were bought full
tread depth and left that way. Just a bit of info...

Mike

----------
>From: Loren Williams <Loren@kscable.com>
>To: autox list <autox@autox.team.net>
>Subject: Re: ST tire options
>Date: Sun, Sep 19, 1999, 12:19 AM
>

>
>
>Dan Gamble wrote:
>
>> I kinda figured ST was to be what SP was originally supposed to do.  Fill
>> the Gap between bone stock and fully race PREPARED cars.  Hince the name
>> STREET prepared.  I guess that concept has gone completely out the window so
>> a new class had to be invented.  They had to come up with a new name "Street
>> touring"  since "Street prepared was already taken.  Even though for the
>> most part, SP has nothing to do with street.
>
>That's right, ST (and STR) are intended for street driven cars with
>common bolt-on mods.  STU... I won't even get into that, it tends to
>take over a discussion.
>
>-----
>
>I guess now's a good time for my Post-Nationals ST observations. 
>Warning:  This is a long post!  I'm bucking to be the next Dennis Grant
>of ST.
>
>14 entries in ST, one in STL.  Not bad for a class that was only
>announced about 2 months prior to the event.  The mix of cars was
>wonderful, with the only duplicates being the three Neons, which were
>each prepared quite differently (not to mention wildly different
>colors... Barney purple, neon green and black!).  As far as the cars go,
>I really think they were all capable of being equally competitive.  What
>decided the trophy positions was mainly tires and driver ability.
>
>The top 3 trophies went to the two most-prepared (we're talking big
>bucks, the best of everything that was allowed), but their biggest
>advantage was the tires.  Both cars were wearing Pilot SX tires, with
>the ones on the top car being shaved.  The fourth place car was on VERY
>street worn Yokohama AVS tires, the least amount of tread in class by
>far.  Everyone else was on various tires, some new, most with a very
>healthy amount of tread.
>
>Here's the breakdown:
>
>1.  Mark Allen      97 Integra GSR
>      215/45-16 Michelin Pilot SX (shaved)
>2.  Wendi Allen     97 Integra GSR
>      215/45-16 Michelin Pilot SX (shaved)
>3.  Vince Bly       93 VTEC Prelude
>      215/45-16 Michelin Pilot SX
>4.  Ron Conrad      86 Civic Si
>      205/50-13 Yokohama AVS (street worn to about 2/32 or less)
>5.  Matt Grainger   91 Olds 442
>      225/45-17 BFG G-Force T/A KD (full tread)
>6.  Ross Atwell     98 Neon
>      205/45-16 Yokohama AVS Int
>7.  George Perinis  9x 200SX SE-R (official results say Sentra)
>      205/50-15 Yokohama AVS Int
>8.  Pat Griffith    93 Sentra SE-R (the Sentra)
>      195/55-14 Potenza RE-71
>9.  Rob Sprandle    93 Probe GT
>      215/50-16 BFG G-Force T/A KDW
>10. Chris Sharpe    91 Olds 442
>      225/45-17 BFG G-Force T/A KD (full tread)
>11. Lance Shueneman 96 Neon
>      215/40-16 Toyo Proxes T1 (full tread)
>12. Loren Williams  94 Saturn SC2
>      205/50-15 Pirelli P700Z (full tread)
>13. Donald Seyfer   98 Escort ZX2
>      215/40-16 Yokohama A520 (full tread)
>14. David Wallens   95 Neon
>      225/45-17 BFG G-Force T/A KD (full tread)
>
>Tire width is, of course, a factor.  But, you'll notice that of the
>trophy positions (1-5) the only car with maximum width tires (we're
>limited to 225) was Grainger's heavy Olds 442.  The other cars either
>couldn't fit a tire that wide, or didn't need it.  
>
>Tread depth is a factor, as well.  I don't think Ron would have finished
>as well with a full-tread set of AVS's.  But, since we all have the
>option of shaving tires, or timing our tire purchases such that we have
>perfect tread depth for Nats (or just buying used tires), I'm not going
>to gripe about tread depth.
>
>Diameter is another factor.  The average street enthusiast goes with
>what looks "cool", but I think the majority of this particular group
>(experienced autocrossers) is performance-minded, otherwise we'd all
>have shown up on 17-18" wheels.  For performance reasons, many of us
>choose to run on 15", 14" or even 13" wheels... which brings me to my
>point.
>
>[Note:  The following info is from the Tire Rack website (thanks to the
>great and powerful Oz).  **Only tires which are legal for ST** were
>considered (225 or less width).]
>
>The winning tire in the class was the Pilot SX.  Aside from being
>obscenely expensive ($179-$229), are primarily only available in 16" &
>17" sizes. (with one 15" size)  
>
>In my opinion, the next best tire in the class was the G-Force T/A KD. 
>Also quite pricey ($204-$250), and available only in 17" & 18" sizes.
>
>All of the other tires were not quite as good, but still very
>competitive amongst themselves.  They were all also much less expensive
>and many were available in a wider range of sizes.  Here are some that
>were seen at Nats, plus some others that weren't:
>
>Yokohama AVS Int ($62-159) available in 13" to 17" sizes.  
>Potenza RE71     ($68-122) available in 14" to 17" sizes.  
>Dunlop SP8000    ($70-152) available in 14" to 17" sizes.
>Sumitomo HTR-Z   ($67-113) available in 15" to 17" sizes. (same tire as
>SP8000)
>Pirelli P700Z    ($61-125) available in 15" to 16" sizes. (discontinued
>model)
>Dunlop W-10      ($67-142) available in 15" to 18" sizes.
>Yokohama A520    ($99-116) available in 16" to 17" sizes.
>
>-----
>
>Now, I agree that part of the purpose of ST is to give newbies a
>competitive place to play with their tricked out street cars fresh off
>the street.  But I believe it also has a secondary purpose, one which
>will most likely decide the ultimate success or failure of the class. 
>That is, to allow people like myself and most of the other Nationals ST
>class, who actually LIKE to compete on our street tires a place to
>compete in our daily drivers without spending a lot of money.
>
>That last part is important.  ST needs to remain inexpensive.  In my
>opinion, we need to do two things:
>
>1.  Ensure that the best tires that are legal for the class are
>available to all competitors.  The stock class availability rule
>(13.3-f:  Each tire model must be sold in at least four diameters with a
>total of at least 6 sizes.) might help, but even that would allow a size
>range of 17" to 20"... which leaves much of the class out in the cold.  
>
>2.  Eliminate the ultra-expensive tires from the mix.  A rule written to
>take care of item #1 could take care of this problem... for now.  But an
>annually updated exclusion list based on the market price of a "standard
>size" would be best. (perhaps making the price cap the average price of
>an R-tire in the same size?) 
>
>
>Lastly, I'd like to bring up another option (I like this one even
>better):
>
>Forget about availability rules and exclusion lists, let people do what
>they want on the local level.  Define one or a few tire models for
>Divisional/National level events as a sort of "spec tire".  This may
>seem "different" for Solo, but when you consider that to win any stock
>class you have to have one of the "spec tires", either BFG, Kumho or
>Hoosier... it's not so far fetched.  We just need to specify the spec
>tires for the class so that they don't end up being the most expensive
>tires available! (that aren't available in all sizes) I think a good
>"spec tire" set would be the Yokohama AVS Intermediate, Potenza RE71 and
>Dunlop SP8000.  That would satisfy everyone's needs and give a little
>bit of choice to most drivers... and most importantly, not break the
>bank!
>
>
>Okay, I'm done.  Your turn.
>
>
>
>
>-- 
>Loren Williams | Homepage - http://home.kscable.com/shad
>'94 Saturn SC2 | Wichita Region SCCA - http://www2.southwind.net/~scca

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