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I modified a front cover once so that it had a removable plate that allowed=
access to the adjustable cam sprocket. It never sealed 100% and I gave up=
after a couple of years. More bother that It was worth to me.
Marty
Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
-------- Original message --------
From: Robert Lang via 6pack <6pack@autox.team.net>
Date: 12/30/19 8:48 AM (GMT-05:00)
To: TR6 <6pack@autox.team.net>, Robert Perry <rgperry@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [6pack] Advancing or retarding the stock camshaft
Hi,
I can say with authority that advancing the cam will help a bit, but it won=
't result in gobs of power. Note that you must have a proper cam gear to do=
this, some on the market are not drilled properly limiting the amount of "=
change" you can make. Adjustable cam gears give you more adjustability and =
hence allowing you to optimize the cam on the dyno. BUT accessing the gear =
on the dyno is pretty hard to do, so we tend to stick with what has worked =
in the past with various cams. All that said, you will likely find a few to=
rques if you advance the cam up to about 4 degrees. Retarding the cam does =
NOTHING GOOD. Regarding tuning, you want torque, not HP. Trust me on that.=
Side story: I had a late TR6 with really low power, the former owner spent=
scads of $$$ trying to get the car to run right. After I verified the basi=
cs, I was able to determine that the cam was retarded. A LOT. Intake was op=
ening ATDC. I fixed that and got over more 30 HP to the wheels. Cam timing =
does make a difference!
I got around 100 HP to the wheels with stock late cam (advanced 4 degrees),=
header, mild porting and a free-flow exhaust. The biggest gain: ditch the =
crank-driven fan. 8 HP. You could probably get another one or two by underd=
riving the alternator, but I've never done that. This was an SCCA "Street P=
repared" car with stock compression, pretty much no internal mods and balan=
cing. If you want real power, you can only get there with higher compressio=
n or boosting. Period.
The 5 main idea is good, but we would also suggest / recommend nitriding th=
e crank no matter what. Stock rods work great when properly prepared, but y=
ou can increase reliability by going to aftermarket rods that are lighter. =
Carillos are e$pen$ive but are also over 110 grams lighter than prepared st=
ock rods. There are cheaper alternatives to Carillo, but they come with som=
e risk. But over 100 grams: That's a LOT of both rotational and reciprocati=
ng mass and that will help for your killer harmonics. Note that 6300 is onl=
y one of them. The key is not staying at the killer RPMs - you need to not =
get there or go beyond them.
That's enough for now. ;-)
C ya,
Bob Lang
p.s. the chart below is backwards - advancing a cam opens it EARLIER than t=
he published numbers (and retarding opens the valves later. For a stock lat=
e TR6 cam, try to open intake at around 22 BTDC. But the REAL number to go =
for is the lobe center, move that towards TDC to advance the cam. The stock=
cam lob center is around 110 ATDC, so make that less than 110 and your're =
good to go.
On Monday, December 30, 2019, 5:30:29 AM EST, Robert Perry via 6pack <6pack=
@autox.team.net> wrote:
Hello All,
Since there is talk about modifications of their vehicles, has anyone tried=
to advance or retard the stock camshaft? I know why bother just change it.
The camshaft tooth degree is 8.57 (360 /42 teeth) with half tooth being 4.2=
8 degrees. So that would be
2.14 crankshaft degrees. Therefore advancing the camshaft a half tooth in =
crankshaft degrees
would be the following;
10/50 50/10 becomes 7.86/47.86 47.86/7.86
18/58 58/18 becomes 15.86/55.86 55.86/15.86
35/65 65/35 becomes 32.86/62.86 62.86/32.86
and if one retards the camshaft
10/50 50/10 becomes 12.14/52.14 52.14/12.14
18/58 58/18 becomes 20.14/60.14 60.14/20.14
35/65 65/35 becomes 37.14/62.86 62.86/37.14
Regards,
Robert
_______________________________________________
Archive: http://www.team.net/archive
http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/6pack
r6@yahoo.com
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<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dus-ascii"=
>
<meta content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8">
</head>
<body>
<div><font face=3D"sans-serif">I modified a front cover once so that it had=
a removable plate that allowed access to the adjustable cam sprocket. =
; It never sealed 100% and I gave up after a couple of years. More bo=
ther that It was worth to me.</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"sans-serif"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font face=3D"sans-serif">Marty </font></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div id=3D"composer_signature">
<div dir=3D"auto" style=3D"font-size:85%; color:#575757">Sent from my Veriz=
on, Samsung Galaxy smartphone</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>-------- Original message --------</div>
<div>From: Robert Lang via 6pack <6pack@autox.team.net> </div>
<div>Date: 12/30/19 8:48 AM (GMT-05:00) </div>
<div>To: TR6 <6pack@autox.team.net>, Robert Perry <rgperry@earthli=
nk.net> </div>
<div>Subject: Re: [6pack] Advancing or retarding the stock camshaft </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div class=3D"ydp961f228fyahoo-style-wrap" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica N=
eue,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-size:13px">
<div></div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi,</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">I can say with authority that advancing the cam will help =
a bit, but it won't result in gobs of power. Note that you must have a prop=
er cam gear to do this, some on the market are not drilled properly limitin=
g the amount of "change" you can make.
Adjustable cam gears give you more adjustability and hence allowing you to=
optimize the cam on the dyno. BUT accessing the gear on the dyno is pretty=
hard to do, so we tend to stick with what has worked in the past with vari=
ous cams. All that said, you will
likely find a few torques if you advance the cam up to about 4 degrees. Re=
tarding the cam does NOTHING GOOD. Regarding tuning, you want torque,=
not HP. Trust me on that. Side story: I had a late TR6 with really low pow=
er, the former owner spent scads of $$$
trying to get the car to run right. After I verified the basics, I was abl=
e to determine that the cam was retarded. A LOT. Intake was opening ATDC. I=
fixed that and got over more 30 HP to the wheels. Cam timing does make a d=
ifference!<br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">I got around 100 HP to the wheels with stock late cam (adv=
anced 4 degrees), header, mild porting and a free-flow exhaust. The biggest=
gain: ditch the crank-driven fan. 8 HP. You could probably get another one=
or two by underdriving the alternator,
but I've never done that. This was an SCCA "Street Prepared" car=
with stock compression, pretty much no internal mods and balancing. If you=
want real power, you can only get there with higher compression or boostin=
g. Period.</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">The 5 main idea is good, but we would also suggest / recom=
mend nitriding the crank no matter what. Stock rods work great when properl=
y prepared, but you can increase reliability by going to aftermarket rods t=
hat are lighter. Carillos are e$pen$ive
but are also over 110 grams lighter than prepared stock rods. There are ch=
eaper alternatives to Carillo, but they come with some risk. But over 100 g=
rams: That's a LOT of both rotational and reciprocating mass and that will =
help for your killer harmonics.
Note that 6300 is only one of them. The key is not staying at the killer R=
PMs - you need to not get there or go beyond them.</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">That's enough for now. ;-)<br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">C ya,</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">Bob Lang</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">p.s. the chart below is backwards - advancing a cam opens =
it EARLIER than the published numbers (and retarding opens the valves later=
. For a stock late TR6 cam, try to open intake at around 22 BTDC. But the R=
EAL number to go for is the lobe center,
move that towards TDC to advance the cam. The stock cam lob center is arou=
nd 110 ATDC, so make that less than 110 and your're good to go.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div id=3D"ydpca4d004dyahoo_quoted_8709648701" class=3D"ydpca4d004dyahoo_qu=
oted">
<div style=3D"font-family:'Helvetica Neue',Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font=
-size:13px; color:#26282a">
<div>On Monday, December 30, 2019, 5:30:29 AM EST, Robert Perry via 6pack &=
lt;6pack@autox.team.net> wrote:
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div id=3D"ydpca4d004dyiv4021707000">
<div>
<div style=3D"font-size:13px; color:rgb(0,0,0); font-family:arial,sans-seri=
f">Hello All,<br>
<br>
Since there is talk about modifications of their vehicles, has anyone tried=
to advance or retard the stock camshaft? I know why bother just change it.=
<br>
<br>
<pre class=3D"ydpca4d004dyiv4021707000msgPlainWrap">The camshaft tooth degr=
ee is 8.57 (360 /42 teeth) with half tooth being 4.28 degrees. So that woul=
d be <br>2.14 crankshaft degrees. Therefore advancing the camshaft a half =
tooth in crankshaft degrees <br>would be the following;
10/50 50/10 becomes 7.86/47.86 47.86/7.86
18/58 58/18 becomes 15.86/55.86 55.86/15.86<br><br>35/65 65/35 becomes 32.8=
6/62.86 62.86/32.86<br><br> and if one retards the camshaft
10/50 50/10 becomes 12.14/52.14 52.14/12.14
18/58 58/18 becomes 20.14/60.14 60.14/20.14 <br><br>35/65 65/35 becomes 37.=
14/62.86 62.86/37.14<br><br>Regards,<br><br>Robert<br></pre>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<div id=3D"ydpca4d004dyiv4021707000elnk_signature_1577701574684" style=3D"f=
ont-weight:normal; font-style:normal; text-decoration:none; font-size:10pt;=
font-family:arial,sans-serif; color:black">
<pre></pre>
</div>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<div id=3D"ydpca4d004dyiv4021707000elnk_signature_1577701611235" style=3D"f=
ont-weight:normal; font-style:normal; text-decoration:none; font-size:10pt;=
font-family:arial,sans-serif; color:black">
<pre></pre>
</div>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<div id=3D"ydpca4d004dyiv4021707000elnk_signature_1577701681010" style=3D"f=
ont-weight:normal; font-style:normal; text-decoration:none; font-size:10pt;=
font-family:arial,sans-serif; color:black">
<pre></pre>
</div>
<br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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arget=3D"_blank">http://autox.team.net/mailman/listinfo/6pack</a><br>
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